Integrex posts

[chris m]

We've been hearing rumors for a while about a (useable) post for the Mazak Integrex (ours is a 300SY); anybody out there actually seen one? The machine should be coming on line here soon and I really ain't looking forward to longhand programming.

 

C

[Steve Biehl - Cimquest Inc]

chris,

we do have one. it takes some configuring, both in the post and on the machine, but we can take care of you. give me a call.

[Guest]

hello chris, we have 4 integrex. i am using mazak camware to do our programming. the integrex is a very nice machine. just courios, why aren't you guys using the mazatrol T plus to programm. it is very easy. just asking.

[chris m]

Thanks Steve, still wondering about our initial MC purchase including that post; any idea if I have a hope of getting that? Mazak keeps telling us "MasterCAM is working on a post.."

 

Arty, we just got the machine, the install isn't actually done yet so we don't really have our programming strategy sorted out yet. We bought the machine as a turnkey, so the part that was originally slated for it is already programmed; we will need to get other parts set up over there soon, though. Any input from you or other Integrex owners is much appreciated as this style of machine is completely new territory for us.

 

Thanks in advance

 

C

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

You may want to try contacting CAD/CAM Consulting Services in SoCal. I believe they have done a post for an integrex. Their phone number is (888)375-7676

 

They have done posts for a number of people in other parts of the country - especially in the arena of 5 Axis Machines.

[Kenneth Potter]

I had a 3 day class on maztrol T-plus prgrammimg.....Arty your sooooooo right...its very eazy to learn

[Anbu Lingappan - Moldplus SA]

Hello

 

The Mazatrol programming is good for most of the 2D machining / milling as well as the turning. Even their B axis indexing works well for the Integrex.

 

The reason you need an external program such as Mastercam is to take advantage of the entire combination of 3D machining and 2D machining on the Integrex. I believe you cannot generate good/reliable 3D surface machining programs on the Mazatrol programming software.

 

This is why Mazak teamed up with Mastercam to bring you a complete off-line programming solution for the Integrex machine.

 

I believe several dealers have developed the Integrex post processor for a machine with a sub-spindle and single spindle. You can take full advantage of the B axis for indexing and for C axis and/or 3axis machining with regular turning.

 

Mastercam Lathe 9 with the new part transfer routine, ability to flip the part and combination of Milling upto 5 axis and lathe combined will allow you to push the machine to the limits.

 

So, you will find yourself probably using both forms of programming (Mazatrol and Mastercam Lathe) to get the job done, but will lean more towards programming with Mastercam Lathe and Mill combination because of the added advantages.

 

I assume you do have Mastercam Mill. If you do, then the combination of Mill and Lathe is the ultimate for the Integrex machine.

 

Good luck.

[chris m]

Not real concerned with 3D surfaces here; we don't do the sexy stuff. We do have Lathe and Mill, just bought V9 upgrade(although the software isn't here yet) and we're looking forward to checking out the handoff/pickoff and other barfeed and part transfer stuff in the update.

 

You guys that are digging Mazatrol; who did the training? Was it Mazak or third party? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

C

[Anbu Lingappan - Moldplus SA]

Hi

 

If you already have Mastercam software (as you have mentioned), you have all the software programming tools you need for the Integrex and other machines.

 

I dont believe you need to invest in additional software such as the Mazatrol Camware in addition to Mastercam.

 

Regards.

[McRae]

Here is the lowdown.

 

Offline programming Good!

Conversational on Machine Bad!

 

I have 2 Integrex YB70's with all 5ax (Simultaeous 4, if you need or want Simultaneous 5 you have to get the Fanuc Control Option. Mazak didn't tell you that did they!) The post from Inhousesolutions is the magic you need in your bag of tricks. Tried to interface Pro/E to the machine but the 4 ax (Milling) roughing options are not there. MillTurn in Mastercam is quite good and we are able to drive the surface models accuratly. I suggest that you get some offline verification as well. Predator or Vericut will pay for itself quickly depending on part cost.

 

Had some Mazatrol programming form Mazak and found that all the controls you have with EIA programming are gone and all the retracts and approach distances are controlled by parameters. I look at it like an olympic diver trying for the gold medal with a concrete block tied to his left ankle, kind of tough to do a flip!

 

Also if you have to make payments on an integrex, remember that your customer is paying for machined parts- not programs. If you are spending half your available machine time making Mazatrol programs - then I have you beat before you get out of bed in the morning as I have just doubled productivity and I will eat you and your young for lunch. (just an analogy - I do not advocate canabolism).

 

Look at the larger picture and remember that we are all in competition, across the world, with varing labour rate, carrying costs, taxes, skill levels, technologies available, among others. Don't start out on the wrong foot and put yourself at a disadvantage on the first day of the race.

 

Just my passionate opinion.

 

[ 06-11-2002, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: MfgEng ]

[chris m]

I am with you on the offline programming. Though some of the machines I run have terrific shop-floor programming capabilities; I do not use them at all because of the fact that the machine doesn't make $ if the wheels aren't turning (don't particularly care for standing in front of the machine half the day staring at an 8" screen, either). I didn't know if the Mazatrol had an offline option (even my ProtoTRAKs have that!) or not, but, from what I'm hearing, it doesn't sound like it. The In-House post that you mentioned, do you know if that will handle my twin-spindle with C-axis contouring on both sides? We're definitely leaning toward EIA programming on MC, but I'm just fishing for opinions out here.

 

C

[McRae]

Dave - Please answer above.

 

Thanks,

Andrew

[Guest]

hello, they do have off line programming. giffo. bros. has a mazak programming system thats pretty good. like i said i use mazakcamware. which is very easy (off line).and i programm right at the machine. 5 axis integrex is a no brainer. i have trained people on this machine and they were realy surprised as to how easy this machine is to set up. chris, you will have fun with this machine. but, if you have to go with a programming system other than the mazatrol. mastercam is #1. by the way, mazatrol takes some getting used too. it's a total diffrent animal. GOOD LUCK.

[PE @ IHS]

Mazatrol Vs. Mastercam hmmmmmm.

 

I have programmed Mazak mills, lathes and Integrex using M32, T32, M Plus and Fusion 640 Controls. I know these controls better than I know mastercam. Programming on a Mazatrol is a quick and accurate way of doing simple 2D parts. Mazatrol is a great tool for people who don't want to learn real CNC programming. This is not meant as an insult, but as an observation.

 

Most people who know Mazatrol do not know CAM or G-code programming. They take pride in not "needing" to use anything but their fingertips. In all fairness, some parts can be programmed more quickly on Mazatrol than in Mastercam. This is where the advantage ends.

 

1.) Mazatrol cannot be sent to any other machine brand.

 

2.) Mazatrol has poor graphics (Backplot is useless on the Integrex)

 

3.) Mazatrol related text editors and CAM software is too expensive and limited. Mazacam and Griffo Bros. software uses 15 year old technology.

 

4.) Mazak has not added any new functionality since the M2, T2 controls of the early 80's. The 640 Fusion control offers nothing new.

 

5.) Machines with the Mazatrol control are $20-$35K more expensive than comparable machines with G-code controls (very expensive for a Mastercam Mill Entry equivalent)

 

6.) The programming features of Mazatrol are very primitive (you MUST plunge, no ramp, no threadmilling in conversational etc. etc.

 

7.) Programming an Integrex in Mazatrol takes FAR longer than it should. Mastercam is much faster on such multi-axis work.

 

Mazatrol has the BEST tool measurement and tool offset methodology, as well as the most user friendly MDI, Data in-out, and other utility features. Their soft key menus kick Fanuc's butt.

 

Sorry about the long post...I'll get back to work.

I am a professional Hamburger Inverse Motion Application Specialist in Toronto.

 

(Burger Manager at McDonald's)

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Offline Programming, Offline Programming, Offline Programming!!! That Integrex is about a $250k machine WAY too darn expensive to be using as a CAM System. That outprices a fullblown seat of CATIA with all the Machining Features. Sorry ARTY gotta disagree with you friend. Programming softjaws is one thing but programming parts, ........ no thanks. No tracability, ISO would have a fit.

 

Griffo Bros..... poor excuse for a GOOD CAM System. Even the Mastercam C-Hook for Mazatrol is fair at best. It does not support MANY of the features and capabilities that Mastercam does with ease.(As of V8 - I have not tried the Version for V9). Gimme code or gimme death.

 

JM2C

[Guest]

i would have to agree with you guys. i need to get my butt back on mastercam full time. but for right now the mazatrol is what i have to work with. it's keeping food in my kids mouth. and i have big kids . i was just trying to give chris a little insight on the integrex. thats all. i did not want to make this a boxing match between mazatrol and mastercam. by far, mastercam is the best cad/cam system out there.

[chris m]

Little did I know that I was uncorking a tornado in a bottle! I have contacted In-House regarding that post you guys talked about and will talk to our MC reseller about theirs; I'm thinking that should get us off the ground. I'm sure once they teach us how to actually turn the machine on I'll be back out here to do some more brain picking.

 

Thanks a lot for the input guys, I really appreciate it!

 

C

 

P.S. $250K for the Integrex?!?! About $400K for ours!!

[McRae]

Cost Analysis - (2) Int 70 $1.5M

(1) Mastercam V9 + Computer $20K

 

*** Orders of magnitude difference...

[Allan Brown]

quote:

---

The In-House post that you mentioned, do you know if that will handle my twin-spindle with C-axis contouring on both sides?

---

The post handles the subspindle programming as far as coordinates, but I had left out the V8 Misc Ops C-Hook support for stock transfer, etc. knowing that V9 would handle it in the post rather than through an secondary customization file. Don't like to spend too much time on work that we know will be thrown in the Recycle Bin!

 

We have about 6 customers using our Integrex post. One customer pushing for subspindle code support agreed to revisit the Misc Ops toolpath support in the post once they had updated to V9.

[chris m]

We just got our V9 the other day; haven't really had to time play with it, though (too many new jobs that are due "yesterday"). We're definitely interested in talking about the post when we get rolling!

 

C

[Simtech]

Chris,

 

I can tell you one thing about the Integrex from our personal experience working with Dave and our customers ... it's not easy!

 

Many parameters to look at, lot of different functionnalities are available but keep in mind that a lot has to do with a good post.

 

We've got excellent support from Dave and his post has really gotten the job done.

 

Dave, just a public way of saying thanks again for the work on this post and all the support issues we throw at you all the time

 

Luc

[McRae]

Dave,

 

Additional "Atta Boy" from me, now print these posts and hit Ed up for a raise!