Nexus VCN- 510C II Mazak

[ATG]

Does anyone run this machine, what do you think of it. Are there any options I should be looking for? Primarily for a job shop, some government work, aerospace, molds, dies, hope I didn’t forget anything......

 

Thanks

[Dave.L]

We have 1 VCN-510C and 1 VCN-410A. Both have 640M fusion controls. Both are great machines for the money but they have a few annoying issues when it comes to setup using pure .EIA methods. They are built pretty well and hold close tolerances. However, in the future we will look closer at Mori NV’s instead since we now have a Mori and I just can’t see anything getting better. But, if you get a Mori you pay for it, IMO, worth it though.

[ATG]

How close of tolerances? Have you had any problems with the spindle? What options did you get?

[Dave.L]

We hold .001” or better on diameters when circular milling and X & Y positions of less than .0005” Unlike Mazak lathes, the mills are very thermally stable. I can remember what the options where but we have 12K spindles, thru coolant 218 psi, chip conveyors, Renishaw tool setting probes (diameter and length).

 

No spindle problems.

[ATG]

Thanks

[ATG]

"Both have 640M fusion controls. Both are great machines for the money but they have a few annoying issues when it comes to setup using pure .EIA methods."

 

What types of issues? We would surly mostly use mastercam to program offline. So I’m curious

[ATG]

bump

[Scott Lundin Shopware Inc.]

EIA on Mazak VCN-510: The machine parameters by default use the Mazatrol Tool Data page for the length and actual diameter of the tool when running an EIA program. This is actually a good thing for the average operator if he is already familiar with Mazatrol. If you prefer to use the Tool Offset page instead of the Tool Data Page for your offsets you will have to change two or three parameters on the machine.(can,t remember which ones).

[Dave.L]

quote:

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EIA on Mazak VCN-510: The machine parameters by default use the Mazatrol Tool Data page for the length and actual diameter of the tool when running an EIA program. This is actually a good thing for the average operator if he is already familiar with Mazatrol. If you prefer to use the Tool Offset page instead of the Tool Data Page for your offsets you will have to change two or three parameters on the machine.(can,t remember which ones).

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Totally true statement. Joe788 uses a combination of tool data and tool offset for good reason. We don't, we use only tool offset since we want the machine to be like any fanuc based machine.

 

However, when doing it that way, loading tools for setups is a PITA. It's very hard to explain here but when you load a tool this is what you need to do:

 

1) Call the tool into the spindle, M6.

2) Move the Z-axis down approximatly the amount of the tool length

3) Call the tool offset, the machine will then actually move up in the Z the amount of the tool length instead of updating the screen. (very annoying).

 

If you hit reset, you need to do this all over again.

 

The Matrix control may not have this issue.

 

As far as programining in MasterCAM and running the programs, no issues whatsoever.

[Joe788]

Dave, you really would love it if you used Tool Data page for the lengths, and Tool Offset page for the wear. The tool length is already active, so instead of adding two steps two your regular routine, it would remove two steps from it. A four step increase!

[Dave.L]

Joe, buddy, you and I have been round and round about this many times and I totally agree with you with the exception that we don't want to be tied to the Mazak control and we want to standardize on fanuc style.

 

It's actually not an issue for us anymore since we never use edge finders, etc anymore. All of our workoffsets are set via G10 comands from model layouts so the setup issue does not effect us anymore. We only use Tool data to manage the tool pocket assignments.

[Scott Lundin Shopware Inc.]

quote:

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Dave, you really would love it if you used Tool Data page for the lengths, and Tool Offset page for the wear.

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Joe +1, This is how I had it setup in my shop a few years back. Thats because we usually ran Mazatrol, but we also had some old Fanuc Gcode programs. It was easy to modify the old gcode this way. If we were not using any Mazatrol programs I probably woud have done it Dave's way.

 

Dave, check with you Mazak people. I think there is a way to turn off all of the Mazatrol tool data pages completely. I never saw it done, but I have heard of it.

[Joe788]

quote:

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It was easy to modify the old gcode this way.

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Scott, depending on how you have it setup, there's no need to edit the code at all. When I got my first Mazak, the only code changes I had to make from my Fanuc 16i programs, to run on my Fusion 640 was the G05P10000 to G61.1, the high pressure coolant M code, and the pallet change M code.

 

The beauty of it is if you call the wrong H offset, it will only use the value from the tool offset page, which is never more than a few tenths (because it's only wear). It always uses the correct length for the tool that's in the spindle. That has saved my bacon more than once!

[Dave.L]

quote:

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Dave, check with you Mazak people. I think there is a way to turn off all of the Mazatrol tool data pages completely. I never saw it done, but I have heard of it.

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Scott, you are correct and we do this now. However, the tool data page MUST be used only to manage the pocket locations, all other data is optional.

 

The issue of the z-axis movement on MDI is one we have not found a way around. Joe thought he knew some parameters but he later told me he could not find them. Mazak has told me this cannot be changed.

[ATG]

Are you guys using the the renishaw tool touch off and spindle probe? For your setups. If so, does this change things again?

[Dave.L]

quote:

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Are you guys using the the renishaw tool touch off and spindle probe? For your setups. If so, does this change things again?

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Yes, we are using the tool touch off and that works very well. However, we have not done it yet, but we need build a master tool for calibration of the touch off probe. I would also recommend the wireless version they have, ours are wired and they need replacement.

 

We don't use spindle probes now, but we plan to when we have some extra funds. I think the spindle probe would change the setup issues I mentioned.

[ATG]

Thats good to hear, I've used the spindle probe at a couple shops now (all Haas machines). Sure seems like its worth the extra coin.