Slightly OT- Considering continuing my education

[Guest]

I really feel that I have topped out career-wise without a business degree,

 

Yup, there isn't much more financial sense for me to get an BSME, the cost versus the income increase doesn't make sense.

 

So that leads me down another path and a business degree seems to make the most sense.

[JMWorks]

Yup, there isn't much more financial sense for me to get an BSME, the cost versus the income increase doesn't make sense.

 

So that leads me down another path and a business degree seems to make the most sense.

 

John,

Do you feel that a business degree coupled with your experience would get you into manufacturing management or were you thinking of a career change when you wrote the above statement?

[Guest]

John,

Do you feel that a business degree coupled with your experience would get you into manufacturing management or were you thinking of a career change when you wrote the above statement?

 

Quite possibly, either.

 

Would really depend on what was available and made sense.

 

I am always open to change, if it is change that makes sense.

[JMWorks]

Quite possibly, either.

 

Would really depend on what was available and made sense.

 

I am always open to change, if it is change that makes sense.

 

I am just curious if there is/should be a place for a business degree in a manufacturing environment below top management that usually doesn't know jack about manufacturing.

[Guest]

I am just curious if there is/should be a place for a business degree in a manufacturing environment below top management that usually doesn't know jack about manufacturing.

 

I certainly could not see that as a necessary.

 

I would "assume" a department manager or similar, getting a business degree would be looking further down the road and not expecting that degree to help him in "that" position.

[chris m]

I am just curious if there is/should be a place for a business degree in a manufacturing environment below top management that usually doesn't know jack about manufacturing

 

Top management pays YOU to know jack about manufacturing; they are supposed to worry about managing.

 

There is nothing I like less than an executive who read a book about machining, or gets American Machinist, or has an uncle who's a machinist, and then comes over and tells me (the machining professional who has been working in the metal trades for fifteen years) what the cause of some problem is, or that it "should be quick" to move a job that was programmed by hand twenty years ago, in a Yasnac, with no work offsets, in a 25-tool, 6,000RPM, BT40 machine, to an Okuma, 10,000 RPM, 20-tools, CAT40. Assume that I know what I am doing; if I thought you could help me, I would've asked you.

 

The reasons that I want an MBA, so I can move up, do not include playing manufacturing engineer; I want to guide the direction of the company and let my guys do what they do. As an employee, you should not expect your boss to know how to do your job, as that is what they pay YOU to do; as a manager, you should not assume that you can do an employee's job, because THAT is the cause of much friction!

 

C

[JMWorks]

Top management pays YOU to know jack about manufacturing; they are supposed to worry about managing.

 

There is nothing I like less than an executive who read a book about machining, or gets American Machinist, or has an uncle who's a machinist, and then comes over and tells me (the machining professional who has been working in the metal trades for fifteen years) what the cause of some problem is, or that it "should be quick" to move a job that was programmed by hand twenty years ago, in a Yasnac, with no work offsets, in a 25-tool, 6,000RPM, BT40 machine, to an Okuma, 10,000 RPM, 20-tools, CAT40. Assume that I know what I am doing; if I thought you could help me, I would've asked you.

 

The reasons that I want an MBA, so I can move up, do not include playing manufacturing engineer; I want to guide the direction of the company and let my guys do what they do. As an employee, you should not expect your boss to know how to do your job, as that is what they pay YOU to do; as a manager, you should not assume that you can do an employee's job, because THAT is the cause of much friction!

 

C

 

 

Well thought out, Chris what were you looking for as job prospects? Most companies I see seem to be small family run organizations where supervisor/manager is about as high as you get without being family regardless if you know anything or not. Then their are the ones that you have to work there 20 years to get off the floor regardless of your qualifications to do anything more. I would assume much larger corporations(I am thinking Caterpillar and John Deere size) may have possibilites in that realm such as VP of manufacturing or something like that.

[chris m]

My current employer is a $40M business with about [100] people here at the facility. I started here as a CNC Programmer / knock-around guy (although my title was Mfg Engineer) and have continuously pressed to get further into the decision making process. I now manage Manufacturing Engineering (3 guys) and the Tool Crib (1 guy and about $250K annual budget); research, specify and negotiate all machine tool purchases; handle facility layouts and associated rigging, electrical power, and machine installation; CNC machine tool service; review drawings; process Engineering Changes and Engineering Releases; program; fight fires in the shop; etc.

 

Even though I do all this stuff, I am still 2 levels in the org chart below VP-Manufacturing (which is where I'd like to end up) and 100% of our senior management hold Master's degrees or PhD. I'd like to stay here, so I need the paper to get where I want to go; if it doesn't work out that way, the paper will get me a better job somewhere else and I have learned a LOT of things I didn't know. Degrees are more than just sh!t to hang on the wall, there IS actual learning that can take place.

 

C

[JMWorks]

My current employer is a $40M business with about [100] people here at the facility. I started here as a CNC Programmer / knock-around guy (although my title was Mfg Engineer) and have continuously pressed to get further into the decision making process. I now manage Manufacturing Engineering (3 guys) and the Tool Crib (1 guy and about $250K annual budget); research, specify and negotiate all machine tool purchases; handle facility layouts and associated rigging, electrical power, and machine installation; CNC machine tool service; review drawings; process Engineering Changes and Engineering Releases; program; fight fires in the shop; etc.

 

Even though I do all this stuff, I am still 2 levels in the org chart below VP-Manufacturing (which is where I'd like to end up) and 100% of our senior management hold Master's degrees or PhD. I'd like to stay here, so I need the paper to get where I want to go; if it doesn't work out that way, the paper will get me a better job somewhere else and I have learned a LOT of things I didn't know. Degrees are more than just sh!t to hang on the wall, there IS actual learning that can take place.

 

C

 

Sounds like you have it figured out and are on your way, thanks for sharing your position and insight.

[Sbarner]

I've got a two year degree from a community college in CNC Manufacturing Technology or something like that. I don't know if it was truly worth the money I borrowed for it, but it certainly has some value. Now I have a job where I've climbed the ladder pretty fast, and pretty much have peaked. There's no getting new equipment here, or buying a multi axis license. I take that back. We do get new(er) equipment every now and then but my requests for live tooling or a trunnion are overridden. *Sigh*. I have a wife that likes to spend money, a three year old son, and 2 month old twin daughters. I have no prospects of any raise after my last step increase in March. So....

 

I decided to go back to school and enroll in the ME program. One of my perks is taking up to six credits for five bucks a semester. It's gonna take seven years (literally) to earn the two full time years of credits, but it'll be worth it. Even if I make 20 grand more a year, all it will have cost me is like 70 bucks in tuition and whatever books cost. Of course making up the work hours and the homework equates to time away from my loved ones, but when I bring home that paycheck that has 1800 more dollars in it, I think they'll understand.

[chris m]

Sounds like you have it figured out and are on your way

 

Some days are better than others. My wife or my daughter being hurt because I cannot spend time with them every time they want me to because I need to do homework or research or whatever sucks; not being able to work on my car, or work on my buddies' cars, when I want to sucks; not sleeping more than [4] or [5] hours a night because I am working sucks; but sitting here and being pi$$ed about some decision that gets made in the Head Shed where the big guys meet sucks worse.

 

Know what you want, know why you want it, and spend your hours and your money on things to get you there.

 

C

[mkd]

so James,

let's have a look at that W-2......

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Uhhhhhhh

 

I'll tell you this; I make enough to support a family of 3 on one income in a nice city in Southern California. I don't live high on the hog, but I'm not hurting either. I don;t make enough to send my kids to college (then again, who does).

[Bob W.]

Some of you guys are so talented I constantly ask myself why you don't start your own business. That is where the real $$$ is made. You are spending your talents making someone else a $hitload of $$$ and getting about 30% of the revenue your time is generating.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Some of you guys are so talented I constantly ask myself why you don't start your own business. That is where the real $$$ is made.

That's a great question Bob... I'll give you my answer in the short form, I'm not a good businessman. I had my own business for a couple years. The technical side of things... obviously was not the problem, managing resources was a challenge, I'd give myself a C+ on that, chasing new business, probably a C-, chasing my friggin' money ... that was probably the biggest area I failed at, I give myself a big fat F for that. I was grateful that I was able to do it for as long as I was. I don't regret trying. I'm doing what I'm meant to do now and I couldn't be happier.