Okuma CAS vs Mazatrol Matrix Anti-Collision Software

[Watcher]

Hi all,

 

I think many of you already read me complaining about Mazak software... so here I go again...

 

Yesterday I found an interesting article from a Okuma AE about real time anti-collision systems, but suspicious as I am I threw him a few though questions I learned with WFL CrashGuard Studio and Mazak MatrixCAM...

 

Although I was expecting some empty and vague answers, the guy surprised me saying that Okuma CAS does everything I thought it wouldn't do and walks the extra mile by removing material during machine simulation too. After reading his answer, I remembered I once saw Okuma logo on Machine Works website and that made me remember of my article about component technology and real-time simulation on machine tools... It also helped me to completely understand why they are so ahead of Mazak in this field, thanks to Machine Works technology which Mazak does not license. (They prefer their archaic code - I called their President in U.S., Mr. Papke and told him Mazak software is simply ridiculous, but I don't think that will change a thing.)

 

So if you are looking for a new machine tool, specially a mill-turn... you could consider this article at Okuma website as a starting point to understand the limitations of these systems. Mazak software is a bloody joke when it comes to anti-collision software, failing miserably to deliver more than half of what Okuma does currently. Please read the comments.

 

I though that because they are big competitors Okuma would have similar technology. I couldn't be more wrong. In regards anti-collision software, they are light years ahead of Mazak.

 

HTH

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Okuma and Mazak are not the only games in town when it comes to real time simulation/collision detection on the machine tool; :cough: Nakamura :cough:

[YoDoug®]

One of the cool things about Okuma CAS is that it works in manual and mdi. Okuma also offers a pc version called 3DVM. It allows you to simulate your process offline and then you can transfer the data to the machines CAS to save time on the shop floor.

[Mr. M]

Can the Nak do real time collision avoidance in all machine modes James? ( not knocking it, just curious as I've used Mazaks attempt and CAS on the okuma's but never used the Nakamura software)

[Chris Rizzo]

Here at the college we just got in a P300 simulator (control box) for a Multus. The AE was running through it a bit and it is very, very powerful. Unfortunately I probably won't have time to learn it.

[Greg Williams]

Machine works supplys the kernel engine to Okuma for there CAS system. Essentially is works on STL files the same way that Machine SIM, Vericut and all of the others checkers work. The Okuma system works in Real time, manual and MDI. On the plus side CAS does work in Machine lock, restart and dry run as well. On the down side is that it does not currently work with RTCP, Super-Nurbs or Inverse feed on a P200

[Watcher]

It's good to hear from other users because I have a great interest in these systems...

 

The reason I mentioned Mazak / Okuma is because they are very popular machines... so many people buy them...

 

I also use CrashGuard Studio, from WFL, and they seem to work well for us so far supporting even RTCP and material removal... in the other hand, Mazak is a way I'd never take again...

[Mick]

It's good to hear from other users because I have a great interest in these systems...

 

The reason I mentioned Mazak / Okuma is because they are very popular machines... so many people buy them...

 

I also use CrashGuard Studio, from WFL, and they seem to work well for us so far supporting even RTCP and material removal... in the other hand, Mazak is a way I'd never take again...

 

How have you found CrashGuard Studio? How comparable is it to Vericut? I've never heard of that product before. It looks comprehensive. Hoow does it compare to other Verification software?

[Watcher]

How have you found CrashGuard Studio? How comparable is it to Vericut? I've never heard of that product before. It looks comprehensive. Hoow does it compare to other Verification software?

 

Apples to oranges. CrashGuard Studio protects the machine and the machine only. In two years we have those WFLs, we never crashed them not because of our accuracy and expertise (In fact we have some operators there that IMHO should not be operating a high-end machine like that, but that's another story.)

 

I'm now in the middle of WFL implementation for Vericut V7.2 because CG Studio can't protect us from programming mistakes, so if we programmed a hole in the wrong location of left material somewhere, it does not care. Vericut protects us in the office, and Auto-Diff is the real answer for our problems.

 

That being said, these anti-collision softwares complement each other very nicely. Vericut + a real time anti-collision system is what a company need to machine good products and never hit the machines, because they usually work in JOG/MDI mode as well... Vericut can't reach that yet, although I think CGTech has some history of integration of their software in machine tools as well, especially tool grinders...

 

HTH

 

Cheers,

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Can the Nak do real time collision avoidance in all machine modes James? ( not knocking it, just curious as I've used Mazaks attempt and CAS on the okuma's but never used the Nakamura software)

Well, I've tested it in Handle and MEM mode and it worked. Didn't try Jog I don't think or Ref. either.

 

It's only available on the Large Screen Naks though. You can load in your own chucks (STL, or WRL files), holders, tools, etc... It's pretty slick.

[Mr. M]

Cool beans

[Mick]

Apples to oranges. CrashGuard Studio protects the machine and the machine only. In two years we have those WFLs, we never crashed them not because of our accuracy and expertise (In fact we have some operators there that IMHO should not be operating a high-end machine like that, but that's another story.)

 

I'm now in the middle of WFL implementation for Vericut V7.2 because CG Studio can't protect us from programming mistakes, so if we programmed a hole in the wrong location of left material somewhere, it does not care. Vericut protects us in the office, and Auto-Diff is the real answer for our problems.

 

That being said, these anti-collision softwares complement each other very nicely. Vericut + a real time anti-collision system is what a company need to machine good products and never hit the machines, because they usually work in JOG/MDI mode as well... Vericut can't reach that yet, although I think CGTech has some history of integration of their software in machine tools as well, especially tool grinders...

 

HTH

 

Cheers,

 

Thats great info. We recently purchased Vericut, and I've already built one machine model for our Okuma MB56VA with a Tsudokoma rotary axis. I'm part way through building a Multus B400W machine model. We are looking at an Okuma MU500 5 axis very soon, so I will be building that model as well.

Vericut is a great piece of software, and the training at CGTech USA is top notch. The US office is fantastic to deal with.

[Greg Williams]

The MU500 is ptetty sweet stuff, I am not if CAS supports the turning function on the MU yet, Certinally 3DVM does not, I believe that Vericut does

 

[Watcher]

Vericut is a great piece of software, and the training at CGTech USA is top notch. The US office is fantastic to deal with.

 

Yes, they are.

 

Another remark in regards WFL Crash Guard software - The Studio version is what NC Programmers use in the office. The other version is what runs on Sinumerik NCK. Files created in Studio can be read by the machine. Similar to what Okuma offers.