program mutating in fadal.

[brandon b]

well hope this makes sense,

 

I have 3 separate programs loaded in the machine for my part. top side, bottom side and a outside profile cut.

 

Machine is a year 2008 Fadal 6030 VMC with MP control..

 

Not sure what causes my programs to "mutate" into each other randomly...

 

Happens mostly on my profile cut,, I just have a 1/4 ball walking around the part. all of a sudden it gets code from my top side program and rapids or feeds thru the part or goes up for a tool change.

 

I go back into my programs list and theres only 2 programs listed. (was 3) and it just splices some code from each program into one.

 

never repeats in the same block . just randomly to any program on anyline it feels like.

 

some how my programs are combing into each other.

[rogkick]

Is it a Cyberdyne Systems custom machine.....:-o

...self-awareness is imminent...

[Machineguy]

Welcome to "FADAL WORLD".

Seen issues with the memory before. Never what your seeing.

How much memory in the machine? 12 megs was a problem in the older machines.

Is the machine always on? Might re-boot the machine, but I doubt that will fix it.

Have maintaince look at the main control box. Check all the connections, boards. Is it dirty inside?

Is the control box getting hot inside? Cooling fans working?

 

Just things to look at first before calling for service.

 

Machineguy

[brandon b]

I did a ri last month when it did it. Everything was fine. I think it may have happened when I loaded the 1st op program in.

[Machineguy]

Make sure the memory and control boards have clean contacts and are seated tight. A shop enviroment and machine shaking will do dirty tricks ot a machine.

Follow the rules when handling the boards. Stay grounded !

 

 

Machineguy

[mkd]

wasn't it these later, untested, controls that put them outta business?

there is an outfit that can do a control upgrade for around 20k. Said to vastly decrease cycle times....

 

very strange error indeed...

[brandon b]

I'll have to try that. I have 7 of these fadals so far this is the only machine that's done this. Only other problem is one of the fadals randomly dumps a program out of its memory. One day it's there the next it's disappeared. Does it all the time.

[brandon b]

wasn't it these later, untested, controls that put them outta business?

there is an outfit that can do a control upgrade for around 20k. Said to vastly decrease cycle times....

 

very strange error indeed...

thets interesting 2 of the 7 fadals we have are that control. Those are the only 2 that have these type of problems

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

wasn't it these later, untested, controls that put them outta business?

there is an outfit that can do a control upgrade for around 20k. Said to vastly decrease cycle times....

 

very strange error indeed...

 

No the 32MP had a color display, a mouse and a special copy of GibbsCAM installed.

 

The control that killed them was the 104D.

[mkd]

thanks for clarifying^^^

 

i've had the recent displeasure of getting a production part running on an 88 control.

$20k machine with about 1.5" of slop in the gibbs, non-upgradeable cpu 4 with 422k memory.

switched to cpu 5, 8meg, new gibbs and straps, 4th and 5th axis drive install.

 

all said and done, we got random b axis taking off by as much as 3/4" and random homing weirdness. nice to not trust your new program and the machine at the same time. great combo for development.

 

boss: "hey what's taking so long?!?!?"

poor fool me " i don't know, maybe building a new shop around a POS FATAL?"

boss: "what's wrong with your swarf toolpath gouging/ missing the part?"

poor fool me " i don't know, maybe building a new shop around a POS FATAL?"

 

yes 1.5" of slop when we started??!?!

{rant off} i feel better now.haha

[brandon b]

There's a screen shot of my mutated program. That's program 3 mutated into program 2 . It never repeats

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

Odds are it's time to replace the memory on the Fadal.

 

http://www.fadalcnc.com

 

Fadals are also notorious for not reacting well to hot and humid conditions.

It sure sound like bad memory.

 

For giggles, check to see if you have any spurious voltage to ground.

Check at multiple spots on the enclosure and control itself.

You shouldn't have any.

[brandon b]

Well it's been real hot and humid in so cal the last 2 weeks. Every summer we have to keep the enclosures in the back of the fadals open . Otherwise they get to hot and quit on us.

[Guest]

FATALS are the biggest POS's in the Machine Tool World.

 

Sorry you have to endure one.

[brandon b]

Lol one? I have to endure 7.

[JAMMAN]

I kinda like mine, though it has been a learning curve. Have the 88HS control, I upgraded to the 286 LOL and I have a calmotion trt160 on it... makes the wheels in my avatar though I have to whiddle most of it 3 + 2.

 

Bought it from a school, a VMC15. No oil, has grease fittings. It was hardly used and I found out why the first time I bored a hole with a tap. The set up sheet in the control box claimed it had a 10K spindle, and it was set up that way. I found it had a 7.5K spindle, and had to change a lot of the settings to get it in the right RPM range and to get it to change tools.. the spindle was bypassing the detent for spindle positioning because it was going so fast. I bet it was never used, it had no metal chips in it.

 

It at one point sent a tool through a blade, turned out it was a faulty cable from the trt160 to the boards. Calmotion was VERY helpful and supportive during my hair pulling. I run it lights out now, it's the most reliable machine in the shop so far. I know, rare story.

 

If you were on this side of the USA I know a dude in cleveland area that knows these fadals inside out. Doubt if he could get coaxed to cali.

[brandon b]

Ours are usually pretty well behaved except for this one. We run the crap out of them. Lots of heavy roughing.

[mkd]

We run the crap out of them. Lots of heavy roughing.

heavy roughing? i'm sorry, but that is just NOT possible.

perhaps it needs a refill on "crap"?

[mkd]

I'm currently fighting a Factory trt165. every other run the following error on the b axis goes way up to 900+ which is an indication that the part is getting gouged.

try to send the machine home and you get a b axis overload.

reset the drives, then it runs perfect......................

FATALS...........

 

shudda went with the calmotion

[brandon b]

 

heavy roughing? i'm sorry, but that is just NOT possible.

perhaps it needs a refill on "crap"?

inconel and ti all day long .

[brandon b]

Haha ya we buy crap by the ton.

[mkd]

inconel and ti all day long .

this i gotta see!!

see you tomorrow...

[JAMMAN]

I'm currently fighting a Factory trt165. every other run the following error on the b axis goes way up to 900+ which is an indication that the part is getting gouged.

try to send the machine home and you get a b axis overload.

reset the drives, then it runs perfect......................

FATALS...........

 

shudda went with the calmotion

 

Does it balance to zero when sitting idle? I'd look at the brakes maybe they are sticking, or the air valves going to the brakes.

[mkd]

^^^right.

i was thinking of adding some pressure gauges to the hydraulic brake lines to confirm the the pressure is off.

 

Does it balance to zero when sitting idle?

it seems fine when doing 3+2. This one 5axis swarf cut just freaks out intermittently.

[BBprecise]

We've had 5 Fadals (the most was 4 at once) in the past 18 yrs, 1 of the 2 we still have has the Fanuc 18iMB control and the other has the MP control (with 4MB of memory, the other 3 had cnc 88HS control with various amount of memory).

 

Never had a problem with 2 programs merging but they will jump around and do funky stuff if the "N" numbers aren't in order (if you turn off requiring N numbers in the control and the prg has them it'll still go screwy so we just leave it requiring N numbers). Re-numbering in the control is the best way. You didn't by chance copy and paste a section of toolpath around which would have created N numbers with decimal points did ya? Try defragging your memory, seen that cause problems too. There's also another option to try with memory, but I can't remember what it was. I'll look at our control as I believe it was on both the MP controls and the CNC-88HS controls. Very well could be like MTB said, the memory may have bad spots (it's similar to pc memory) and needs to be replaced.

 

Is the rotary a Fadal or aftermarket, this could be a problem as we've only used VH-65's and never had one just rotate on its own?

 

Just remembered what the other option was or at least I think I did, it's called re-initialize memory/control.