HST toolpaths and Window Frames?

[crazy^millman]

Okay got some parts that I am going to program HST style. I have surface models not solids and what I normally do with solids is create a solid that represents my part how is it going to go to the next operation. Yes more work, but I use the Verisurf 3D PDF for my customer files for the shop floor guys to see set-up without having to open up the Mastercam file and risk problems. With a Surface Model I can get what I want, but then we go back to my other issues which is I use Mastercam Solid Layout to make all my shop prints for setup operations. Yes more work, but I do not have the luxury or time to go to every place they are going to be running my programs. I now have some parts where I need to do a window frame around them for the flip operation. I could tab the parts, but since they have holes in them I can use them to locate the part for the next operation. Make some clamps and machine this .05 wall thickness part and then for my last operation cut the part loose from the windows frame which will be bolted to the tombstone and part will be bolts to the fixture and good to go. So do I take the time to make the surface model into a Solid so I can use the Solid Layout function? We just seen a thread about that and not Mastercam's fault, but the nature of the work I am doing. I will probably make the solid from the surfaces and have not seen what Solidworks can do with this, but had an expert try stuff like this before and they felt Spaceclaim did the work much easier and faster than either.

 

Sorry for the information, but my question is do I do a down and dirty set of ruled and fence surfaces to represent my window frame? Do I make the Solid which gives me all the things I want, but is a lot more work? I want my customers to always get more than what they expect. I fall short like anyone, but try my best and I am open to any suggestion comments or ideas from others. Everyday I learn things and glad to have work, but never hurts my feelings to be able to do it faster and easier.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who is willing to share their thoughts or suggestions.

[Delcandoit]

I always make solids for everything I work with personally. I like to have more information than needed so that they guys on the floor have everything they need to make a good part. I like the idea of a 3D PDF, I hadn't thought of that and it will be very useful. Thanks for that idea! Now that Tetra 4D doesn't have sole rights to 3D PDF our 3DTransvidia package can generate them.

 

I have SpaceClaim but I still can't help but use Mastercam to make my solids, maybe I'm just stuck in my ways. I will extrude most things and when I do window frames I usually backplot the toolpath, save the geo, then use it to extrude the correct shapes. The solids work great with all of my software and it actually takes me less time to make a solid than it does to make a full part from surfaces. SpaceClaim is really easy with the quick features and I'm learning to use it more often.

 

I doubt I helped but my vote is for making a solid since it will have many uses

[Oscar R.]

I build a model for everything, stock, vise, rotary, custom soft jaws, everything. I label levels, and level sets. I name all of my toolpaths with descriptions of what they're going to do, define my tools and tool holders and label all of my tools with description from the tip to the holder flange.

All of this goes onto the setup sheets along with a full description of the operations and any setup instructions that might be required.

 

Yes, this takes time.

A lot of people question why I take the time to do this and they think it's a waste until they see the difference of having a half a$$ setup sheet and job description, and a really well preped and well defined program and setup sheet.

 

Is it worth it?

IMHO, that all depends on who you ask.

 

If you ask the guy that's paying me. He doesn't want to pay for me sitting around typing away instructions or making a model of this or that. Shoot, I get crap from some people for making 3d models of the part that I'm going to make from the 2d print.

But if you ask anyone that knows what they're doing and has looked at my program files or setup sheets, you'll never hear them say that it was wasted time. They know exactly what they're looking at and what needs to be done.

 

My customers are the people that make the parts from the programs and setup sheets that I make. If I have to stop every five minutes to go tell a guy on a machine what should've been on the work instructions, then it's a waste of time.

My time, their time, machine time, setup time.... and time is money as you know.

 

To me, it's worth the extra effort on my part to make sure I, or anyone else, doesn't have to second guess or do things twice do to lack of info on my part.

At the end of the day I helped get work out the door that much faster once it's on the machine.

 

So, at the end of the day, is it worth it to you?

[crazy^millman]

I like the idea of a 3D PDF, I hadn't thought of that and it will be very useful.

 

I doubt I helped but my vote is for making a solid since it will have many uses

 

Yes like I said all opinions are welcomed. The tool from Verisurf is free. I am on an island most days so the forum sometimes acts as my sounding board. Thanks for even taking the time to respond I appreciate it.

 

So, at the end of the day, is it worth it to you?

 

For now it is keeping food on the table and roof over our heads so as long as that keep happening then yes. Thanks for even taking the time to respond I appreciate it.

[Delcandoit]

I am on an island most days so the forum sometimes acts as my sounding board.

 

I work 6:30am - 7pm Mon-Sat so this forum is my sanity when my eyes start crossing. I have learned so much from reading on here that I will be eternally grateful.

 

I have been using the HST toolpaths so exclusively that I rarely use the standard 2D type toolpaths like pocket unless I'm having trouble with an organic shape and need to cheat a bit just to get it done. They are such time savers when used properly. I've become pretty quick at chopping up solids or making surfaces to drive them that it's second nature now. My only problem is that I quickly end up with huge files when I'm not careful.

 

Thank you for all your input Ron, I've gleaned a lot of information from your posts alone.

[Oscar R.]

For now it is keeping food on the table and roof over our heads so as long as that keep happening then yes. Thanks for even taking the time to respond I appreciate it.

 

Millman, I agree with you on that and that actually brings me to the point that a wanted to make in the first place.

Which is that doing all of these extra little things is what sets programmers like us apart from the rest.

 

People(customers, bosses, etc.) who value those extras are willing to pay for good work like that.

 

If you're willing to go the extra mile for your customers, and provide them these extras, then don't even think twice about doing it.

 

If this is something you find ourself doing a lot of, my oppinion would be to find a way to automate your workflow on this process.

 

For example; At one point, I found myself making a lot of custom soft jaws for 6" vises.

So, I made solid models of blank jaws in various sizes and when ever I need to make a custom one, I bring the blank into my workspace along with the solid model of the part and booleen remove the part shape into the blank jaw and for the most part, I have what I need.

Maybe you can make templates of window frames for tombstone that you come accross often.

Maybe you can model these up ahead of time. Something that would not take to long to modify. Have them saved and ready to go when you need them.

 

I know this may not be much help for being so long winded, but that's my 2 pennies.

 

Cheers and keep up the good work.

[Delcandoit]

Making templates for frequently used items has been a life saver in our shop. I set up a shared folder that has every fixture, nut, bolt, jaw, etc... easily accessible to our department. I added logic to the post that automatically puts the name of the user account which posted the code into the NC program so the operators automatically know who to talk to if there's a problem. I've taken often used toolpaths like technigrip prep and exported them as default files. Now when my guys need to prep the technigrip they just import and reassociate the path to what they're working with at the time.

 

I'm working on creating a workbook that automatically takes information from the traveler made by the planners and populates our set-up documents with part numbers, material specs, change notices, etc... It's been quite the project but it should be pretty useful once done. The goal is to eventually have anyone open any Mastercam file, press G1, and not have to hand edit or do anything else. Hopefully this will remove the old problem of a programmer from 3 years ago hand editing an NC program without telling anyone then we scrap parts because we made a change and reposted.

 

Lots of great advice Oscar and I hope so of my own rambling may be useful in some manner as well. Always trying to help in any way possible, wherever possible.

[brandon b]

The goal is to eventually have anyone open any Mastercam file, press G1, and not have to hand edit or do anything else. Hopefully this will remove the old problem of a programmer from 3 years ago hand editing an NC program without telling anyone then we scrap parts because we made a change and reposted.

 

Exactly

[crazy^millman]

Yeah I have 100's of solids I use for stuff. Jaws, clamps, bolts, 4th axis, tail stocks, chucks jaws, steady rest and other things. I put a file on the FTP called free solids years ago that has some of these common things in them. Download stuff all the time from Carr-Lane, Jergens, Mc-Master and few other places. This part requires a sub plate that will be mounted to their supplied tombstone. Then I will make custom clamp plates to hole this thing in a sandwich while it gets cut apart. Probably should have charged double for the work, but again I am home enjoying my family and it is fun figuring this stuff out. Some days I may work 20 hours straight and other days with family activities I may only get a couple hours. All good though I am my own boss to a point. Customers are still the ones in charge, but I got no problem telling someone no and not interested. I have been in 14 different shops in the last 2 months and been involved with 20 different projects. That is great for a person like me. I like the challenge of figuring things out. The same thing day in and day out is just not me. I do any job to the best of my ability just how I am, but new things bring the interesting factor into the equation.

[Delcandoit]

You know that feeling when you need to get someone a gift but they already have everything? That's how I feel when I'm trying to think of advice that you may not know Ron

 

I did the contracting thing for a while and the uncertainty ended up being worse than the daily grind for me personally. I ended up getting extremely lucky and getting a position at a place that is big enough to afford most of the right stuff, but small enough that everyone has a voice and is heard. We do lots of small run parts so we're always onto something new daily. Plus I love the fact that we are a self sustaining nonprofit that hires people of all ages, races, creeds, and disabilities. We're a stepping stone for people to get into the industry so we have a lot of inexperienced workers but they're always bright eyed and hungry for knowledge. This can be a blessing on most days and a curse on others lol. We just have to be very thorough with our setup documents and patient with questions. This was why the 3D PDF thing made the light go off and the guys on the floor are loving being able to really look at the fixtures and parts. Thanks for that one!

 

Work, family, and loving life. It's all awesome Thank you for all of your contributions Ron, it's always appreciated.

[crazy^millman]

You know that feeling when you need to get someone a gift but they already have everything? That's how I feel when I'm trying to think of advice that you may not know Ron

 

You humble me saying that and just thankful to know what I know, but trust me I learn new things all the time. When I quit learning new things then I might decide to learn the play the Piano like I wanted to as a kid. Wife keep bugging me to learn her native language Portuguese, but I have a hard enough time speaking English and to learn a different one on top of this one? This place means a lot to me and glad to give what I can to others. I learn things just by helping people here figure out things. I ended up making the part into a solid and working with my solids from there. More work than I originally thought, but such is life.

[Chipmakr]

I would make the solids. I am looked at like I am crazy sometimes for doing a lot of the things you guys have described here. Their is NO substitution for knowing how things will work, how things will clear, how long the projections of holders/extensions/tools etc.. need to be to clear working holding and make the common or the near impossible work out every time at the machine. Leave nothing to chance and document it well and throughput and quality will be high. I use the X+ set up sheet and have a stock model screen shot to show how the part should look at the end of the operation. Stock model screen shots have been a great tool in helping to know what the result at any given time may look like. If a person can read and interpret the information on this setup sheet they can find mistakes before they become an issue.

 

I always encourage our guys to create models. When you have to go thru the steps of building the model in my mind its just like machining the part from a mental point of view. I understand all aspects and features in the part. I see where problems may arise and I am able to create better processes because of that. Its a lot cheaper to work all this out in front of a computer v/s at the machine.

 

JM2C