Mastercam VS Pron NC

[JLearn]

Has anybody used Pro NC before? Can you tell me the Pro's and Con's compared to Mastercam. Thanks for the help!!!!

[Steve Biehl - Cimquest Inc]

are you asking about Pro Manufacture from PTC?

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

Jlearn

Iused pro/e pro/nc years ago and the thing that I didn't like about it was the "rigid" pro/e enviroment. It did not allow for what I call "special cuts". Sort of like gibbs inability to machine a curve. If what your trying to do does not make sense to pro/nc then it either "corrects" the cut or wont let you.

 

Another big problem with pro/nc is the post processors. It outputs apt and then you need a post from icam or other post generator. (They are not cheap. Icam's campost cost us 15,000 and was so restrictive compared to our beloved mp language.)

[Allan Brown]

Good points Jimmy. I remember a client of ours had the engineers using Pro/E in the design office. After a ton of post work for them, the mfg guys said that they were going to eval Pro/NC (Pro/Man, module name varies every few years?) for the reported automation of toolpaths from the design parts. I said to let us know how things worked out. They came back and said that they needed to spend $3000 to $5000 for a 3-Axis Haas post just to do the eval, and that they might as well be looking at another seat of MC!

[pronc]

Pro's and con's? let me see.

 

pro's

 

material removal

better surface tools similar to moldplus but better.

you don't have to worry about gaps between surfaces when doing 3d toolpath.

support family table part.

better 4 axis mill toolpaths.

better 4axis edm toolpaths.

more advance surface roughing since you can define any shape of volume to remove.

better Associativity between toolpaths and model. compare to mastercam and solid.

supports min-max tol setting machining if using proe model.

better developement tool when combine with proe and intralink compare to mastercam + other cad model. you can roll back any changes or go forward . almost never lose anything.

 

better tooling design tool when use with pro/e since it has advance assembly and drawing compare to mastercam solid.

 

there are more but i leave that to other pro/nc users in here.

 

con's

 

too expensive

training classes are limited and too expensive.

high maintainance

hard to find pro/nc programmer

not friendly to use to most people.

 

again there is more.

 

all of this is just my own opion based on my experience as a Mastercam and Pro/nc user. Hope this helps.

 

ps: you can use any 2d, 3d curve or sketch to drive the tool. we use Posthaste for post processor. we recently bought our 4 axis Charmilles Edm machine post for $650. it outpouts Iso and Cmd file with no hand editing needed.

The mill full 4 axis post was around $1000.

[wtsylvester]

It really isn't a fair comparison. Even if it was Solidworks and Mastercam combined.

Maybe UG . It only takes money.

 

Lets see how much money can I spend in Tolland Ct.?

 

Maybe 25k max? <'begin salesman routine here> before I start repeating myself.

What do I get by spending more , more peformance ?? no, another seat

 

I am just beginning to get attention in Waltham Ma. at 25k

but by laying out more dough can I take it further.... yeah baby

...someone turn off that salesman routine

 

ProE is real strong , It has more geometical references than S/W ,

Sure it it goes to APT , but Apt source is pretty close to nc

Vb.net .$110 and a afternoon for a post.

 

It does what I don't think any other package does.

I f I have a conic radius running along a compound angle

and I change one of the angles of the compound angle.

I regenerate the model , the toolpaths go along for the ride.

 

I can insert a model into a assembly and extract my edm

eletrodes using the solid model for cuts. Then just change the

model regen .. and now I have my next set of trodes.

these could also have cut paths assigned too.

 

I don't know enough about MC solids, but is this the process

Some one give you a part model and you use it to get

surface model for the trode.?but then can you switch the

model??

 

But like Pronc says it's not friendly to other software's

not like you are going to drop someone else 3d model

into it... you are proe all the way , tho iges out to mastercam

is pretty good.

 

You can cut off any geometry you can create, which is

pretty much unlimited.

 

Training is high. Maintence too.. PTC attitude is absurd.

But they have a Users Forum

http://www.ptcuser.org/exploder/

You'll get a quicker answer there than from PTC

They share post

 

It's a lot of up front work to get everthing dialed in. Do

your needs warrant the "True Model Asociativity" or

does your company make a family of parts. Do they have

deep pockets

 

It depends on your needs are,if you have the needs for

what ProE can do then there really is no choice,

Nobody else can do it.

 

But I don't think you will use it for most things and

you will still need a seat of MasterCam !!

 

the scareist part is with proe is that you are

allowing that engineer who last month wanted

6-32 holes 3 inches deep in stainless a foothold into

cutting the part.

I prefer the give me the model... get the heck out

method. It cost extra to watch

 

But then again 80 % of mill work could be done

with a calculator and notepad. Under a tree

by a lake:)

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

wtsylvester

Lets talk more bout this programming at the lake thing. That sounds like the reel deal. Just tie the fish line to my toe like ol' huckfin.

[Jayson Kramer]

You guys have a moment also drop in on www.cnczone.com and look thru the Pro-e forum.

Pronc know the one.

[Jayson Kramer]

Pronc, what is the last version of mastercam have you used?

 

I know you have used both Pro-E and MC.

[pronc]

Jay,

 

i'm sorry i forgot to mention the comparation was based on Mastercam v9.1 sp1 and Proe wildfire v2.

[cadcam]

Pronc, so you guys are running both the latest at the company now to do the comparison?

Do you still dable in both?

 

thanks jay

[P_Scott]

wtsylvester,

 

Cost is the key issue. How much money do you think the average Job Shop has to invest in software and experienced users? For just one seat of Pro-NC (which requires Pro-E to begin with) and the cost of a Pro-E/NC engineer who has the machining knowledge to make it worthwhile, you could probably get 4 or 5 Mill Lvl 3 seats of Mastercam with solids and Pro-E converters and you may already have the people to run those seats in house. Which do you think the average machine shop is going to do?

 

Can I do the stuff Pro-E/NC does? Most of it can be done with current Mastercam software.

quote:

---

change one of the angles of the compound angle.

I regenerate the model , the toolpaths go along for the ride.

---

This is done with Mastercam and Solids every day. I do it on a regular basis in my Solids class. I have been doing it since V8 with Solids and surface toolpath associativity.

 

quote:

---

I don't know enough about MC solids, but is this the process

Some one give you a part model and you use it to get

surface model for the trode.?

---

There's no need to convert a Pro-E file into Mastercam and then extract surfaces from it. I can work with the solid part as if it was designed in Mcam. In fact, it's easier to produce electrodes from solids than surfaces in Mcam. You should check into it. Mcam with Solids may surprise you. And it costs a mere fraction of what you'd need from PTC. Not to mention the cost of a good Pro-NC programmer. HTH

[McRae]

Myth "the cost of a Pro-E/NC engineer who has the machining knowledge to make it worthwhile, you could probably get 4 or 5 Mill Lvl 3 seats of Mastercam with solids and Pro-E converters and you may already have the people to run those seats in house"

 

This is compltely false. You can buy seats of Pro/Nc and UGNX for about the same cost of Mastercam L3 and you get a parametric modeller built in. I have the P/O's to prove it.

[P_Scott]

Andrew,

 

I wasn't aware that PTC had dropped the price on their software so drastically. So they're now including their full-fledged parametric modeler with each seat of Pro-NC? I was under the impression that it was a separate module that required Pro-E to be able to run. My bad. I still feel that finding someone who is a Pro-NC programmer that can realistically run a machine is far more time consuming and costly than training an existing machinist in the use of Mastercam. There are thousands of machinists who know Mcam. How many Pro-NC'ers are there? Out of that number, how many have set-up and run CNC equipment? I'm just asking. Not trying to butt heads.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...You can buy seats of Pro/Nc and UGNX for about the same cost of Mastercam L3 and you get a parametric modeller built in...

---

But how much is that "engineer" going to cost you vs. an MC Programmer? How much is productivity worth? I've seen some guys run Pro/E and UG... I gotta tell you, the level of complexity FAR outweighs MC, and it's not intuitive at all, and it takes a fully competant(sp) UG/CATIA/Pro/E Programmer longer to program the same part in those software packages vs. MC. What about the MANDATORY Maintenance. That has to be considered in the TCO. Those packages will shut off if you don't get Maint. MC gives you the option.

 

Not to be arguementative, just trying to show the whole picture.

 

JM2C

[wtsylvester]

I was unaware that cutter paths are associative with solids.

But when you change one of the 2 angles that create the compound , you do that from what the associated drawing?

 

Most agreeable a JopShop isn't going to buy ProE

If no other reason the lack of file translation

into Pro

unless they are vacationing in Bulgria then it might set them back 10 euro.

 

Even then !! they will still need Mcam or stick lit cigarettes in their eyes.

 

But proe can do quite a bit. Don't get me wrong I'm not slamming mastercam. Pronc touched on some of them. Maybe solids are associative in Mcam

Pro it all is , and relational if the need be.

 

Pro-E/NC engineer?? ProE is surely more cryptic than most. But any machinst can learn it just as easy as any other program.

 

But if Pro/Nc is about the same as Mcam L3 then that kind of changes things dollar wise.

But It still would take a lot of up front effort

To set it the way you wanted. Quite a bit more than Mcam

 

 

tie the fish line to my toe like ol' huckfin

frees up both hands for beer

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

I have several customers that run both pro nc and MC. If cuts are straight foward then either package will do. For total tool control its MC.

 

Plus MC's reseller network cant be beat.

 

Jimmy teh gone fishin

[P_Scott]

wtsylvester,

 

quote:

---

tie the fish line to my toe like ol' huckfin

frees up both hands for beer

---

Now you're talkin'.

Toolpaths on solids in Mastercam are associative, as are all toolpaths in Mastercam. So, change a feature on the solid part and regenerate the solid. Then go to the Ops mgr. and regenerate the toolpaths that are using the solid geometry. It's been that way since V8 with the associative toolpath across the board. Why don't more people use Solids in Mastercam? You're guess is as good as mine.

 

Several of our customers use it every day, and couldn't imagine working without Solids. They had to be convinced of the power and convenience of Solids in Mastercam. Before, they were skeptical, just like everyone else. The difference is learning. Learn all Mcam has to offer and it makes a world of difference. HTH