Colin, I understand that it might possibly cause a ton of other issues. What I don't understand is that Mastercam was supposedly rewritten from the ground up for release X. Changing the color of a solid face should have been taken into account as basic functionality when X was rewritten as it's not new or different functionality when a user needs to work with solids. Actually it should have been taken into account when Mastercam Solids was first released. The fact is this basic functionality is included in any solid modeler I have ever used except Mastercam Solids. Perhaps I'm still overlooking something on this topic but if so I can't see what it is right now.

"The ablility to color solid faces and shade them when being selected is one of our top 5 requests to CNC Software by Boeing... It has been asked for and is going to be implemented, the question as always, is when..." I guess I just don't understand why there is such a long delay on something that seems like such basic functionality. It's very hard for me to see all the effort made to create Feature Based Machining and Mastercam In SolidWorks and see something like this not implemented.

"There is not a big CADCAM revolution in the works" It's already begun: PTC acquired Co-Create. Siemens purchased UGS and accelerated the development of Synchronous Technology. Mike Payne co-founder of PTC and SolidWorks started SpaceClaim. Parametric-history based modeling still has the same problems it had when it was introduced 25 years ago by PTC with Pro-E. To this day parametric-history based modeling users are still forced to remodel parts and assemblies from scratch because parametric-history based modeling doesn't give the user the badly needed tools to understand someone else's design intent and it doesn't give the user tools to work with non-native solids.

"Would it be better to go with a later SP version of 2007 then a new one of 08?" Yes. SolidWorks 2009 will be what SolidWorks 2008 should have been. Most users that I know completely skipped SolidWorks 2008.

"How is Solidworks learning curve?" Very steep if you do very advanced parts and assemblies because of the extremely complex file relations parametric-history based CAD like SolidWorks creates. There really are no tools in SolidWorks to manage these complex relations with the exception of a low level tool like a roll bar. This product was an attempt to deal with this problem. www.solidmap.com It leaves a lot to be desired. Suggest you thoroughly read the link I provided above which lays out what the problem is with parametric-history based modeling and what new and better technology is that doesn't have the problems that parametric-history based modeling does. If you missed the link I put it below: http://tinyurl.com/59qak8 "One last question, are there any good tutorials on SW similar to Streaming Teacher?" Yes. www.myigetit.com www.solidprofessor.com Both offer excellent video tutorials on SolidWorks. I own the $600 SolidWorks Professional video training package from SolidProfessor. It was well worth the money.

"I'm curious, does anyone else think it would be a great option?" Yes.

In my opinion you should do four things: 1. Learn Mastercam solids. 2. Learn SolidWorks 3. Try importing a non-native solid part model into SolidWorks and doing some serious modification to it. Also, try to figure out and modify someone else's SolidWorks design in SolidWorks. 4. Read and understand the following article which explains why parametric-history based solid modelers fail miserably at task number 3 (above) and lays out what the better technology is: http://tinyurl.com/59qak8

"Sounds good Jon, a list would be good and any examples ahead of time will certainly give me a good starting point." I'll be working on it over the holiday. "As a tip before we have this conference, try pressing Alt + F9 to turn on the Cplane and Tplane axis markers. They should appear in the upper left and upper right corners. Nothing too impressive, but I've found it helpful when using this in combination with displaying the 'WCS axis gnomon' (not the default in the lower left which always shows you the 'world top view'), especially for 4th axis work." I leave them on all the time. "I'll also be able (hopefully) to give you some good tips on creating and positioning stock. Real Stock. Not just using the 'offset' function, but a real world "Ok, I want my part centered on a block that is xxxx big, and I want .100 of excess on top and the remaining excess on the bottom"." Many times what I do is import a Pro/E file, establish a WCS and then create a bounding box with the extra stock I'm going to saw cut. I then move the WCS to the corner of the bounding box for my first operation. If you have other methods I'd like to see them. "We should also try and discuss the filter settings as these are rather important." I use the Quick Mask a lot but this may not be what you mean when you say "filter". "For example, you might have a straight section of a contour that is actually broken into 3 lines so you can do a 'change at point' and reduce the feedrate in one section. The filter will join these lines together in the code, effectively wiping out your 'change at point'." I don't think I know what you mean by filter. Sounds like this would certainly be a good area to cover. "I'll email you once I get the meeting software all setup and give you the details..." Great. I just purchased Mike Mattera's video Surfacing CD and I'm going to spend sometime with it this weekend. http://www.tipsformanufacturing.com/html/x_3d_milling.html I've already got his Rotary And Contour video: http://www.tipsformanufacturing.com/html/x...contouring.html I purchased the Rotary And Contour video CD about 8 months ago. I did run into a simple part that I'd like to understand how to program off center on a horizontal mill so I can cut multiple pipes at once. It was basically a pipe with a helix type slot cut in it. From what I can tell to machine the pipes with the helix slot cut in them off center I would have to use Multi Axis Swarf Machining with output set to 4 Axis. Amazing how a simple part like this can get much more complex when you want to move it off center. This isn’t any kind of priority but I would like to get there someday. This topic was not covered in Mike's Rotary And Contour video CD. [ 08-30-2008, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: NeilJ ]

"It can't dwell in a radius.. a radius implies motion and a feedrate. You can use "change at point" to slow a toolpath down in a radius." I decided to try what Trevor of San Diego CADCAM posted above in regards to breaking the arc. I broke the arc but instead of using the Toolpath Editor I used Change At Point. Sure enough the code posts out with Dwell using a .250 cutter on a .250 radius. My conclusion is you can dwell in a radius with Change At Point if you break the arc and then use Change At Point. I'd rather use Change At Point instead of the Toolpath Editor if possible because it's faster in many cases and I can regenerate the toolpath without losing my changes.

"I use mirror all the time to get a left and a right part." I tried using Transform Mirror on a part yesterday and had nothing but problems. First time I've used it. I ended up doing an X-Form Mirror on the geometry and then re-chaining everything. I'd like to know what I did wrong.

"Mirroring a tool path has never been a good choice." Why?

Scott, are you comfortable stating what subject matter you would like to cover?

Scott said: "I'll be on vacation for the next 2 weeks, but would I be welcome and what would I need (software) to take part in this? I'd have to talk to my IT guy. I'm not a computer guru, so be explicit or I can just forward it by email to him. Will this cost besides software? I'm a second shifter, but I could come in early, if necessary. Just thinking out loud." Colin, If necessary we can wait till Scott is available.

"Sounds good Jon, we can cover both Lead In/Out and WCS." I think I finally got the WCS down. See below. Lead In / Lead Out we don't have and we most certainly don't have Transform Toolpath. "I'd prefer sometime in the afternoon" Most of us like to get out early Friday. It would need to be around 1 PM Pacific Time. "What is the normal work schedule at your company?" Machine shop and sheet metal shop is aprox 6AM to 3:30 PM except Friday. I'm often there later. "I'm sure we can cover a lot in a few hours and make it productive for everyone who is attending..." I'd like to give you a list ahead of time and perhaps some of our files. My boss seems to feel this is okay if I strip the Pro-E stuff out that we get from our engineers, etc. "Dave Thompson's comments were also spot on. I spent a few hours last night trying to explain WCS to a new user, but gave up and just showed him how to use just Construction planes to rotate and translate geometry." Dave Thompson "knew" me for perhaps 12 years. We first met on Usenet in alt.machines.cnc before this forum existed. We never had much in common because I didn’t want to use Mastercam until X2 MR2. I hated the product and I badmouthed it. It took Dave Thompson and I less than 10 minutes on the phone to put 12 years of bad feelings to rest. Dave decided he could trust me and Dave Thompson is nobody’s fool. Dave Thompson never asked me for an apology because he knew I wouldn’t give him one. I never asked Dave Thompson for an apology because I didn’t feel I needed one. I trust Dave Thompson. I trust the person who took over when he left. If I had used Mastercam or wanted to use it I would bet every penny I’ve ever made that Dave Thompson and I would have gotten along from the get go. I have no doubt that Dave Thompson understands why I wrote what I wrote on my blog. He many not agree with all of it but he understands where I'm coming from. Teaching the WCS is not an easy job but it can be done. I feel I have a lot to give in this area. Derek Goodwin is very close to having a complete WCS video to teach someone who has never used the WCS before if he decides to implement my suggestions on his existing WCS video. http://eapprentice.net/ Lately he’s put a ton of work into his website and I’m very impressed with his efforts. I feel my suggestions for how to teach the WCS are good because I struggled so hard and for so long with putting it all together. I just figured out how valuable Rotate WCS is after running into a file where what I was doing didn't work. Don't know if you saw my posts on this topic. I probably have more to learn about the WCS. My guess is I will have to start doing rotary and 5th axis work to find out what I don’t know. We are getting a trunnion for our Haas’s very shortly. This will give us 5 axis simultaneous capability. We don’t have 4th axis capability now. "Things like using the screen grid to visualize your plane/depth combo" One of my co-workers showed me this and I use it all the time! "and using the icons and axis markers to help you see how your part is located relative to your WCS/Planes..." This might be something we should go ever. I might very well pick up something here, not sure.

Alex, I downloaded your utility and will try it this weekend. Thanks for making the effort to do something about this problem. Will your utility work with Open Office's Calc Spreadsheet? http://www.openoffice.org/product/calc.html

It has been stated in this thread that all you have to do is read the Mastercam help file and documentation included with Mastercam to understand something as simple as Lead-In, Lead-out. My contention is that Lead-In, Lead-Out is far from simple and most people (myself included) don’t fully understand all the ways it can be used. The exact same thing can be said about the Mastercam WCS. I've seen many tutorials on the WCS in the form or Powerpoint presentations, videos, etc. Many have been very helpful. None of them have been complete enough. The following was posted by Dave Thompson who worked for In House Solutions and who started this forum. http://tinyurl.com/6k42mx "Your comments on the WCS are bang on. It’s a very misunderstood, and often abused area of the software. As a multi-axis post developer, we see the WCS used where a toolplane should be used. The WCS should represent the orientation of the part as held on the machine for a specific setup."

Colin, Next Friday, Sept. 5th work is good for us. Need a time that works for you so we can reserve it. We all use Windows XP Pro.

"The problem is that other people who don't know the history, are much less likely to participate in the forum, thinking that they will be ridiculed. I tuned in last week to see people flaming Neil, and I didn't get the joke." It actually goes much further and much deeper than this, Derek. Long time Mastercam users who have voiced their concerns in the past in this forum with legitimate complaints experience much the same thing as you can read here in this thread.

It was pointed out in another thread that there are many ways to use Lead-In and Lead-Out. My bet is many long time Mastercam users haven't thought of all the ways Lead-In and Lead-Out can be used and what it can be used for. Mastercam reseller training is not available or affordable to many people. Before I worked where I work now that shop was not on maintenance either.

"Neil, does your dealer offer classes? All the above cited points are covered in our BASIC class. JM2C" As I've posted several times before I believe the rules of this forum don't really allow discussion of Mastercam dealers / Value Added Resellers. Even if they did I'm not comfortable commenting in any way in regards to this subject.

What topics would you like to see covered by comprehensive example based Mastercam video tutorials? Here are few topics that I feel I would benefit from: Demonstrate advanced use of Lead In, Lead Out and what you can use it for. Cover every Chaining option and how to use it. Transform Toolpath. There is still plenty I don't know about Transform Toolpath. I've never even used the Mirror part of it. Little Things: Example, explain what -1 is used for in the WCS. -1 outputs G54 and so does 0 with the post I use. What is the reason to have -1?

Hi Colin, "After looking at it I can see two major differences between the two methods. 'Change at point' works on wireframe driven toolpaths, and the change is associative to the geometry. That means you can go back and change some parameters (lead in/out, XY stock to leave, depth) and regenerate the toolpath and your 'change at point' modifications will remain the same." Very helpful to know. For whatever reason this never even occurred to me. It should have but it didn't. "I haven't forgot our conversation in the thread that got locked." I'm happy that there is now a sticky for enhancements and I think that's better than letting the thread that got locked go on. What really would please me is if you put the enhancement ideas you posted in the now locked thread in the enhancement sticky. Specifically when you said: "Make all the dialog boxes in the Mastercam interface modeless, so you manipulate the graphics view, measure the model, select data points to be entered into a data entry fields no matter which dialog box is open. Add Backplot, Verify, regenerate, and posting function buttons to the toolpath dialog box, so that you can make parameter changes, regen the toolpath, and go right into Backplot and verify without ever having to close the toolpath dialog box". "I'd propose to spend a couple hours for free with you so we can feel each other out and see if I can answer your questions and provide examples that benefit you and your co-workers. I appreciate your offer of compensating me for my time, but I have a great job and I'd really like to do this for free, just to know that I've helped someone who is struggling." How about a conference call from my bosses office with our end on speaker phone so you can get a feel for what we would like and see if your interested? "I've been under the gun lately, but I'll try and talk with you through email at the end of the week and see if we can set something up. How does next Friday, Sept. 5th work? I work 4 - 10's at Boeing so I have most Fridays off work." I’ll check with everyone tomorrow and let you know if Friday, Sept 5th works.

Greg, "I never used the toolpath editor, but I have used change on point and it works well." I've got a toolpath where Change At Point won't pick up one of my feedrate changes but when I use the Toolpath Editor it will pick up the feedrate change. Not sure why yet. I can see one advantage to Change At Point for feedrate changes... if you’re making multiple contour passes and want all of the passes to have the same feedrate changes it's faster to use Change At Point instead of editing all the points on every pass with the Toolpath Editor.

Why are there two ways in Mastercam X2 to do this-> Change At Point and using the Toolpath Editor? I seem to have better results with the Toolpath Editor compared to Change At Point when trying to change feedrate on a toolpath. Has anyone else noticed this?

"I thought about your reply over the weekend. I'm not so sure that what I have to offer is to the mastercam trainee but the mastercam trainer. It's teaching the trainer how to teach others within his company to learn mastercam." I think it's often much harder to reach and impact the trainer than the trainee. "Many people, not just on this forum, but in general, don't understand different people learn by different methods." I don't think they care. They suffered with poor or no teaching. They struggled for years and they want others to experience the same suffering. Not everyone wants to make things better for others. "I wish I could read the mastercam manuals and get it like so many of the guys on this forum." Unless it's comprehensive tutorial based training it just doesn't work for me. Some of it clicks but not enough. "...when they come to me and start describing their problem, my mind just kind of freezes. Inevitably I say, let's go out to the machine and you can show me what you're talking about. Then I get it, and can tell them a solution" This would describe me as well. Perhaps perfectly. "So I understand your desire for high quality videos." I appreciate that you understand where I'm coming from. The problem I have is that the advanced one’s I need are not available for Mastercam. Advanced one's are available for SolidWorks and the company that makes them does very well. www.solidprofessor.com "But I'm not a guru like the others on this forum." I'm not sure one has to be a "guru" to offer great Mastercam / Machining video. "if you read my soliloquy thread on the off topic board, you'd also realize why at this moment becoming a guru is NOT the highest priority in my life." I read it and couldn't think of anything that I could post that would come off as sincere. I couldn't post anything religious because I'm not. I wanted to say your post earlier in this thread meant a lot to me but that didn't seem like the place to say it. So, I said nothing and hoped you would post again in this thread and you did… thanks.