Surfcam layoffs coming (or came)

[gmenzies]

Again, I think some scheme that can protect software can and must be devised, even if it adds another door the user must pass through and a little more inconvenience.

 

I agree

when i upgrade my solidworks. I need a login

to get to the patches

[mikeb]

hey,

i'm still hearing the voices...

"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool."

 

--Jane Wagner

[Charles Davis]

mikeb

Not sure I get your drift? If you're saying its impossible to protect software, I just find that hard to believe given off the shelf encryption technology.

Look, you can make a credit card purchase over a "secure" site without the number being stolen. I just think there must be a way.

I think it's unacceptable to accept the status quo. Are we really prepared to say, "we're only going to sell software to those honest enough to not steal".

We owe it to the honest people to make sure thieves don't have a competitve advantage.

[mikeb]

No, No, you misunderstand me. I was in no way attempting to be serious, entirely facetious, sarcasm. It was in line with James Mayette's comment awhile back. Us programmers have to joke around once in a while to keep sane.

Piracy is theft, not much more to it.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Charles,

There is a way to protect the software. Hardware protection is the only way. A PCI/ISA card that actually performs functions in the software this could help two-fold, it may help with the speed of the software (though in V10 this will pretty much be a non-issue) but every little bit helps.

[Toby]

James,

What would be stopping a determined person (thief) from figuring out how to duplicate the code on the card and create some work around?

[Bullines]

Good point, Toby. Someone could always develop an emulator. The person who figures out a cure-all for software piracy could retire as a wealthy person for sure

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Toby,

I've not yet met a coder that can write code to duplicate RAM? Or how about a CPU? Get my picture? It would be THAT critical to the operation of the software.

[Toby]

perhaps that would do the trick

I was thinking there is good reason high end places of business hire top notch hackers for security. because They know all the tricks and secrets to exploit software. Maybe that's what Mastercam needs to do.... hire a hacker to help develop the ultimate inpenatrable system.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

You know, that's EXACTLY why reputable companies hire hackers. Because they make a difference for the better usually.

Many times a hacker will find a vulnerability in software, they will tell the company privately and if they refuse to deal with it then go public with it. Kind of liek extortion eh?

[Bullines]

James,

A good example of emulators are the one's that emulate console game systems like SNES and Sony PlayStation. I've seen other emulators for other computers like the AppleII, Amiga and the good ol' C64. Emulation is quite shady and underground, but it's quite popular.

As far as emulating RAM goes, it is possible, believe it or not. A couple of projects of mine in university emulated RAM. This is accomplished by using assembly language and the internal registers of Intel CPUs (high level languages like C++ don't allow you to access the registers). Registers on a CPU is essentially on-chip RAM.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Bullines,

Dang! Once again I have to remove the foot from my mouth. I hate when that happens.

There's got to be a way. Thanks for the info. That's good stuff to know.

[Charles Davis]

What if the SBA would go in with the authorities and impound all parts in progress and awaiting shipment as evidence since they were manufactured using stolen property?

All the big fortune 500 companies banded together and set a policy that any supplier busted for using illegal software was dropped as a supplier? (since the above would threaten their parts supply).

I think that would go a very long way towards eliminating this type of theft.

[cadcam]

Charles,

That would defiantly make some thing happen big time out there.

[Bullines]

Here's a recent article that talks about what the BSA has been up to lately.

http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general...2803614,00.html

And James, you mentioned that you never met a coder that could duplicate RAM or a CPU? Well, pleased to meet you [bullines shakes your hand].

I also forgot to mention WINE; the Windows emulator for Linux and Unix. Now that's a big-time emulator...works fairly well, too.

[Guest]

if man can make it. man can break it. and that is very unfortunate. no matter what they come up with to try and stop bootleg software. there will be people out to break it.they even have websites and newsgoups where you can go to see the latest software that they broke. these guy's are not machinist or cnc progammers. they break this stuff for fun. and just like microsoft,all cad/cam software WILL suffer cutbacks. just my thought on this subject.

[Charles Davis]

That's why another approach must be tried.

Why don't more people rob banks? It's certainly not because it's difficult (just a hand written note, right?) It's because there are potentially significant negative ramifications.

The big problem with piracy is the perception that there are few, if any, negative ramifications.

If a "zero tolerance" policy were adopted by business towards subcontractors busted for illegal software, this would create significant negative consequences (like loosing a big (or only) customer, bankruptcy of your business, layoffs, blacklisting).

So, people COULD pirate, but few WOULD pirate because of the significant risk to the COMPANY. Employees would help reduce piracy, rather than accomodating it.

Employers would institute "zero tolerance" policies at their own company's much like HP and others have.

Let's call this the Thermonuclear solution.

[ 08-25-2001: Message edited by: Charles Davis ]

[Juan]

i wouln't be surprised to find out, that a majority of legitimate cnc software users had previously learnt mastercam on illegal copies. i also believe users using pirated version will eventually purchase a legal copy. because they become so proficient on using mastercam that they find it cubbersome to use anything else.

i personally don't see whats so bad about piracy, in mastercam's case i think it actually helps cnc software. there is a reason why mastercam is so popular

Since what would you rather have more potential future customers using an illegal copy of gibs or an illegal copy of mastercam.

oh yeah, i love mastercam

laters

juan

[ 08-25-2001: Message edited by: Juan ]

[Tony]

Learn on a Bootleg then buy the real thing...?How about learn on a version that you can't post or save files...How do you keep software from being copied then used ?How do you keep a cordless phone from being scanned ? maybe you could keep changing what your O/S is looking for to run MC

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question326.htm

[Charles Davis]

The problem, Juan, is when company's steal Mastercam and use it to run their CNC machines to make parts and profits.

That's the line: are you using it to learn or make money. Once you cross that line, the only moral thing to do is buy a legitimate licensed copy.

[Juan]

tony,

i'm totaly for learning on 'bootleg' and then buying it. although, i do know of friends who i went with to mc classes that had illegal copies, and they were using it for practise and such.

charles,

yeah i'm disgusted that companies would use such illegal copies to make money. if they afford expensive machinery, they should also be able to afford mastercam.

in my case, i can't afford mastercam, let alone a decent computer but i plan to buy it, maybe in 5-6 years, when i decide to do leave my job do some contract programming instead.

btw, i love gibbs j/k

laters

juan

[gcode]

Surfcam offers a functional copy of Surfcam

for $100. It does everything a real copy will do except post and save files a real copy can read.

I think this is a real good alternative

to people using crack to learn the software.

Of course I'm sure there is a crack out there

to break the educational version of Surfcam.

The bottom line is that the people using crack are stealing from the company that wrote the software and the people who paid for a legal copy, regardless of their motivation.

Every cracked copy out their diminishes the value of the legal copies and reduces the companies ability to imporove the software.

[cadcam]

Gcode we offer the same thing but it does not cost $100.00.

so this is what i say they use to practice and learn on.

[ 08-26-2001: Message edited by: cadcam ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Yeah, what Jay said!

You can get a copy of Mastercam Demo. It's got Mill Level 3, Lathe, WIre and Solids....... for less than $50(usually). You can do everything but Post and Save. It will dimension to 1 or 2 decimal places. V8 has pretty much taken the old excuse that "Mastercam Doesn't Have Demo Software, so I use bootleg". Today there is no real excuse to use bootleg(other than to purposefully steal). People could say that "I want to evaluate Mastercam's capability before I purchase it", well that's BS too. While I was a reseller, I sold a few systems that went in as "Evaluations". They were given a certain period of time to use the software before it times out or ceases to be functional. We required a Purchase Order before the eval would be approved because we wanted to know that the person was serious about purchasing the software before we did that. The period of time depends on the dealer, the circumstances surrounding the sale.

If you're intent on saving your work you can always buy a seat of Mastercam Draft. It is only a Wireframe Modeler (Lines, arcs, points, splines and dimensions. It is VERY cheap. Call your local reseller for details. It also has communications software in it so it's economical to put at every machine that has a computer so that the setup person can check certain aspects of the model before doing things. AND you can save with it. No toolpaths though. Only modeling.

[gmenzies]

how many of you have paid and registered winzip ?

mastercam / excel / microsoft word

big or small . everybody has fallen somewhere.

lets get back to mastercam . and forget the

debate .

what goes around comes around . and if you cheat the system . the system will eventually

catch up with you .

 

Qoute

"i'm totaly for learning on 'bootleg"

I suggets a format fast