Horizontal VS. Vertical

[haroldm]

Hey Guys,

I was looking for some honest feedback here, it would be much appriciated. I have been programming for vertical mills, routers, and lathes for about seven years now, and i am pretty confident in my ablilities. Well I have been offered a posistion in a larger business, but the only problem is that they use horizontal mills. I have never programmed for a horizontal mill before, and I am not sure how much diffrent it is compared to vertical mills. Could i get some information from some of you enlightened individuals on this? Thanks.

[chris m]

From the very limited time I've spent in a shop with HMCs the major difference to me is that you can get to 3 sides of a prismatic part; much like a VMC with a big rotab on it.

 

I'm sure there's more to it than this but I think most of the difference would be in visualizing the part in the machine differently and understanding which features are now possible to be machined at the same time.

 

I'm interested to hear what the HMC guys hear have to say

 

C

[Quickmike]

I would be in the same spot as yourself had I been elected to take a position like that. I don't know about horizontal programming either. I've always had the same question. Lets see what the survey says. I would be a little tentative accepting a position like that. But I always figure at one point I didn't know Mastercam either. I think you will have a couple of things to figure out but other than that can't be that much more difficult than verticals.

[beej]

HaroldM,

If you are a good programmer on verticals you won't have any problem on horizontals. As far as programming goes, there isn't that much of a difference. X, Y and Z are still the same. Some horizontal mills have a retractable spindle that is a W axis. But in my experience this has mostly been handled with the post. The biggest difference for a programmer will probably be in the spindle speeds, horsepower and amount of stock you can take with each pass.

 

HTH

[haroldm]

Hey guys, thanks for the feed back. I guess i have always just thought that the diffrence is how the part is set up. Since the mill is still approching the part in a perpendicular fasion, maybe it is just the way of looking at it? I am not sure. I have had this interview set up for acouple of days now, but i just found out about the Horizontal thing last night. I have about 7 hours to reconsider this job. Hmmmm...

[mowens]

It is a little different. I've always put my origin at the center of rotation, but I know other guys do it differently. You also have be sure your tool is clear for any rotations. Depending on how your post is set up, I think you have to be careful when you rotate say from B0 to B90. Sometimes you can have a crash if you don't make sure you stay at a clearance point until the rotation is complete. That may be the biggest difference. But, as beej said, if you are a good vmc programmer, you shouldn't have a problem.

[robk]

haroldm, if you have an opportunity to learn something new than you should jump on it.

IMO, there really is not much of a difference when it comes to programming the actual part. After all a milling machine is just that no matter how it's sitting. Your retracts may change and you may use WCS a lot more on a horizontal.

If doing production runs you might use the subprogram options a lot more also.

No chip evacuation problems with horizontals so you may look into heavy milling for unattended machining. Horizontals are a lot more flexible. You have the ability to work on multiple sides in a single setup.

[ckarner]

You should be fine, just some reaching problems that will only change your feeds and speeds. And yes move that tool back befor rotation moves. Go for it you will add that to your list of machines you can program.

[Slepydremr]

So much to say too little time to type...

 

The primary difference you will notice is that you program from the front view, not the top like you would on a vertical.

 

There are alot of other things you will find out.. I don't think any of them are too complicated for you.. And if you have questions or run into trouble all you have to do is ask and I'm sure someone here can get you going in the right direction..

[haroldm]

Hey guys, thanks again for the great responses. Well i have to say that i would love to learn something new, and i am not opposed to learing this way of machining, but the kicker is this: They currently do not have anybody in their CAD ROOM. The last guy left them in a lurch, and they are a big company in serious need of a programmer. I just would not want to damage them more than help them. I guess i am trying to do the right thing for them, and be honest, because their would be a learning period and i am not sure they can afford that. i will of course be honest with them, but after all of your responses, i think i can hande the job. Thanks guys, you really helped me out.

[haroldm]

Hey guys, one more thing. I guess this is directed to Slepydremr: So your saying that just use mastercam's front construction plane, and that will simulate the horizonatal axis? I wasnt sure if the machine converted it, or if we had to take that into account in Mastercam. Thanks.

[Slepydremr]

It's a switch in the post..

 

code:

---

vmc         : 0     #0 = Horizontal Machine, 1 = Vertical Mill 

rot_on_x : 2 #Default Rotary Axis Orientation, See ques. 164.

#0 = Off, 1 = About X, 2 = About Y, 3 = About Z

---

This is how we have it setup here for ours. You don't have to.. some guys don't. But I think it is the preferred way to do it.

[haroldm]

Thanks Slepydremr,

That makes sense. I see where it's going now. Maybe i am just over analyzing this horizontal thing. Thanks again.

[Slepydremr]

Sure..Good luck w/ the job.

 

[spade117]

you can still do your work from top plane,like he said you could also change the post or with x you can change machine defs. wcs is your best friend when it comes to horizontals. I was a little apprehensive at first, but it seemed fairly easy once I got used to it. And like the other guys said, remember clearance.

[ckarner]

Good Luck let us know what you end up doing.

[mcpgmr]

I prefer an HMC over a VMC. The programming is basicaly the same you just have to deal with the rotary axis if you have one. I agree with the chimp humpin the football on this one. I try to machine 5 sides when possible. The HMC with full 4th axis lends it self to Lean manufacturing better than the VMC with full 4th axis. Here is an example of a part that went from six setups to two utilizing HSM on our Hitachi Seiki HG500 HMC.

 

 

[P_Scott]

haroldm,

 

Slepydremr and others have given you some good advice. Something else to consider when programming for a Horizontal is don't be afraid of the "Incremental" setting in Mcam for Depth. This won't produce incremental code because the post processor is designed to always output absolute coordinate values. I would rather have the "Incremental" word changed to "From Geometry" or "From Model" in reference to Mcam's toolpath parameters. That's essentially what it does. Uses the value of the geometry to set the depth. This is very useful when you have multiple contours that are all at differing depths but you still want to machine them all with the same tool at the same time. HTH Good luck and let us know how you do.

 

ckarner,

 

Welcome to the forum. Good advice about the retract position.

 

Also look into using the Safety Zone in the Machine Group Properties. This helps alert Mastercam to the additional clearance necessary and it can automatically set a safe retract height before the rotary move.

[Andrew Abken]

Wow this is great information for those of us who have not had the oportunity to tackle the HMC. I think this forum is the best!

 

Harold, hope the job interview goes well.

 

Andrew

[DrewG]

I programmed and ran VMC's for years, and was quite apprehensive about the new Makino A66E HMC coming in. Now after two years of working on it, I love it, and prefer using the HMC whenever possible. Having the ability to work on several sides of a part and the HMC's "chip evacuation" advantage can't be beat.

I find it a bit easier and sometimes faster to use the verticle if I have an "easy, one or two part job" vs the HMC. Depending upon the size of the machine, it can be a bit difficult to "get in there and indicate a part" on a HMC vs the VMC.

 

Most people will agree HMC's are used more for "production" vs "one off's" or "prototype" work that you may see on a VMC.

If your familiar programming VMC's, the jump to HMC's isn't bad at all. In fact, I took it as a challange, and found it to be much easier than I originally thought. Good luck!!!!