Fadal Question

[Ed@Gentex]

I have some questions about MCX,Cimco DNC Max4, and My two Fadals.

 

Here is what I have 2 Fadal 4020 VMC’s Cimco DNC max 4 (one five axis one 3 axis) both with the Fadal C.N.C 88 control which I received after Jim@Gentex Received his brand spanking new Deckel Maho 5 Axis CNC (lucky dog) .

 

Here is my question, When using DNC (which I use a lot because of large programs) I cannot program the feed more than 20. IPM if I go above that feed rate I get very choppy motion in the machine and data compression in the control is evident (two lines of code scroll instead of hole page) Jim had the same problem when he had the fadals but really never needed to fix it because he wasn’t doing much production just R&D stuff, Now that I have them they want production and want everything yesterday.

 

The max baud rate on the machine is 9600.

Does any one know if there is a fix for this ?

 

Thanks

 

Ed

 

[Guest SAIPEM]

Make sure to use G08 at the beginning of the program.

[smokey_44]

what size of buffer does the machine have ,cause I used to cut 3d forms for molds from scan data and there would be a *hitload of points in the program and this would cause the machine to have

"data starvation" this is caused by a small buffer and the machine cannot read far enough into the program to make the next move thats why when you lower the feedrate you get smooth motion back again, fixing the problem ....get a larger buffer I would say ,or try filtering your programs to remove some of the points.

 

 

Dave Ferraro

[smokey_44]

I fogot to mention that (not sure if it still avaiable) we bought NWD filter and this helped a

hell of alot to get the programs moving the way they should be ...could check that as well.

 

 

Dave Ferraro

[Ed@Gentex]

The post puts the G8 in the program.

 

I also thought it was the buffer. I guess I'll have to start looking for a buffer upgrade.

 

thanks

Ed

[smokey_44]

$$$$ for the buffer(i think), I think if I were you I would look at the filter options first then use the buffer thing as a last resort....

 

 

Dave

[Mjölnir]

If the control has the option, which it will if it's a CNC88HS, post in incremental and use G91.1 (high speed execution).

[bellyup]

quote:

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they want production and want everything yesterday.

Does any one know if there is a fix for this ?

---

you'll be famous if you find one.

 

sorry, couldn't resist.

[DaveR]

Why is the max baud rate 9600? I use 115k on my Fadal all the time, no problems.

 

Have you tried to increase it?

 

If you are stuck with 9600 consider more memory. I know it's a rip $ wise but would save you lots of hassle.

 

I got 4 megs for $1800 if I remember right.

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

I think you're onto something there DaveR...

 

Our Fadal runs at 19 something... 19200 ?

 

Ed@Gentex, do you know how to adjust it in the Fadal control ?

[Guest]

quote:

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Ed@Gentex, do you know how to adjust it in the Fadal control ?

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Doesn't this procedure require a freshly signed PO, a forklift and a dumpster?

 

 

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

[moldman7]

Be careful of using G8. That disables the look ahead and you won't always get an accurate toolpath. The 88 control is slow to process in tight corners. You should be able to up the baud rate but that may not be the problem. If you are doing tight geometry with a lot of changes in Z in a small area the control will go into snail mode. Nature of the beast. Your Fadal dealer should be able to answer this over the phone.

[Guest]

quote:

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Nature of the beast.

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Slay the beast,

Slay the beast,

Slay the beast.

 

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

Don't hold back, John... How do you really feel ?

[Guest]

Worse piece of machinery since the Edsel.

 

I keep telling myself one leaves at the begining of the up coming year and one leaves the next.

 

Hell, if we could sell them in Japan and China, we might not have to worry about them catching up and passing us. Meanwhile, the competition gets all the high end equipment and many in our country try to compete with an inferior machine that will cost you a mint to maintain and not make you as much in the long run.

 

Why are the jobs going over seas, 3 words.

 

Faster. better, cheaper,

 

Like shoveling sh*t againt the tide.

[billystein]

i dont think it is the baud rate. the control buffers 200-300 line ahead. I have always used 9600 baud rate and it has been ok. I would check the G8 and make it is staying modal. (just make sure there is no G9). also i keep the feedrate at 50. if you cant get the jumping to stop have your service guys check servos and ball screw.

billy

[Jake Statz]

We used to run our Fadals at 9600 and they couldn't keep up either. We swithed to 32400, added G8's and used the filter to reduce program size. It definatly helped. Programs now a days have become so large with all the 3D surfacing that the Fadal 88 control is simply getting outdated. We used NWD Metacut for a while it also helped but we would run into problems sometimes if people typed in the wrong tolerances. Any time there is a small external radius that needs to be machined the Fadal still goes slow when doing a parallel or raster toolpath. We tried to do more and more programming using surface finish contour and only paralleling the shallow areas and this also helped. The real solution however would be to purchace a S56 Makino and utilize high speed maching tecniques. We still have 12 Fadals but we are gradually replacing them with Makinos. I not trying to be a salesman but the increase in productivity is astonishing.

Good luck on you mission however, and if you do come up with a Fadal speed with accuracy solution please let us know. We do still have 12 of them.

[Bruce Caulley]

Install some fish and seaweed around the machine.

[Guest]

BTW Ed

 

 

Sowwy for the hijack

 

[smokey_44]

quote:

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Why are the jobs going over seas, 3 words.

 

Faster. better, cheaper,

---

Faster....Maybe in some cases....

 

Cheaper....Absolutely

 

Better....Not a *ucken chance

 

We've run "CHINA" dies here many times ...the dies just seem to ...welll hmmm DIE ,EXPLODE ECT ECT ECT.

 

Dave Ferraro

 

P.s. I agree Fadal = *hitbox

[Guest]

quote:

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Better....Not a *ucken chance

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Qualitywise I agree,

 

BUT,

 

when ALL that companies are concerned with is the bottomline, faster & cheaper in their eyes, it is better.

[smokey_44]

quote:

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We've run "CHINA" dies here many times ...the dies just seem to ...welll hmmm DIE ,EXPLODE ECT ECT ECT.

---

How is that Better ? Sorry John but in the long run I think (and I hope) that SOME companys will relize the Crap they are sending us. I have see this already with some companys...hopefuly more will follow.

 

Dave Ferraro

[Guest]

Not trying to have a p*ssing contest Dave

 

How is it better? It's cheaper, some companies are only concerned with the bottomline at the end of the quarter, investors to satisfy.

 

BTW, I agree with what you are saying.

 

What is happening in industry though is undeniable.

 

[Ed@Gentex]

Yes the baud rate is 9600 max. And yes the machine gets really jumpy in 3d contours where X,Y,Z,A,B are moving at once (Swarf tool paths)I tried filtering the tool path but it came back from DA .010 O.O.T.

 

Quote:

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Doesn't this procedure require a freshly signed

PO, a forklift and a dumpster?

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Yes As I stated in my first post Jim@Gentex got the freshly signed PO, (Deckel Maho 5 Axis CNC)

 

I know I'm beating a dead horse with these machines but when your told make sh!t shine you have to at least put on the rubber gloves a face mask and give it a go.

 

Thanks guys!