Take that China!!!!!

[Guest]

Great concept steve, expect every person on the floor is NOT cut out to making decisions about someone elses livelyhood they can barely make their own decisions. Same guys who are gone on Thursday and hungover until Tuesday AM, I know I damn sure don't want them involved in any decision relating to my paycheck, no thank you.

 

This is why some will be owners and some will be workers. The world needs ditch diggers too.

[Bruce Caulley]

Steve,

We are implementing self managed teams here. The trick is allocating EXACTLY what decisions the teams/cells are allowed to make. I am a little sceptical of the concept, but we have a "four windows" strategy. There are:

1/ Management decisions - Big Picture stuff, admin etc

2/ Consultative decisions - Management consults with staff, but make the final decision.

3/ Joint decisions - Management and staff MUST agree before action is taken.

4/ Self Managed Team decisions - All decisions relating to the performance of that team or cell are made within that team or cell.

 

Going to a feelgood seminar and then telling all and sundry that you are a lean/5s/sigma6 company is one thing. Actualy implementing it requires management to relinquish much of their authority to people down the line and essentially become support staff. This is where I think most companies that go down this road fail. No-one wants to give up their power. Once the framework for the "four windows" is in place and followed the benifits and efficiencies will flow. Some egos WILL be bruised, some "empire builders" will either go or be shown the door, and some teams/cells will take their new responsibility too far. IT HAS TO BE DONE NOW, NOT TWO WEEKS BEFORE AN ADMINISTRATOR IS APPOINTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If I caught a staff member "sandbagging" because they had their nose out of joint over a new business strategy, I would give them a couple of days off to think about how far that attitude will take them.

 

Bruce

[steve f]

Bruce,

 

I think you hit the nail on the head about big egos having to relinquish power...but if it's good for the business it's good for the employees. I think some are satisfied with the office, cell phones and feel good meetings but finding the people who are willing to make twice as much by spending time on the floor and in the office can make a difference. A friend of mine started a job a few years back doing tool repair for a casting company and he was told on the first day..."if we have to babysit you, you're gone". Long story short, he showed interest and proficiency and now his employer is covering the cost on a 2 year diploma in manufacturing management, he designs all their tooling and manages the entire toolmaking process.

 

I've never forgotten that quote and after one year of self-employment I'm trying to hire people that can be left alone for a day and be just as productive as if someone was breathing down their neck. I don't have time to babysit and they don't have time to waste so why not put them in charge of their own job...they'll be happier and so will I.

 

On a side note, here's a bit of shameless self-promotion:

 

www.muvdesign.com

 

 

steve

[pap]

six sigma, the 5S system, why are all of these managers paying millions of dollars for all of this nonsense ? why don't they "just do it" ?

instead what we get is a bunch of micro managing engineers who don't know what they are doing (due to NO experience) who look down their noses at us "ignorant buttheads" and run shops into the ground and then think they did something good. now that they have eliminated all of the their skilled labor, they can hire some minimum wage crack heads to run their machines... isn't that ironic ? one young Texas A&M mechanical engineer once told he could hire a whino off the street, train him for 2 weeks and have a perfectly good mold maker. imagine that. no small wonder manufacturing os going to india and mexico.

[priden]

Well, you know they have little old ladies in India that can eat a handful of chips and crap out a perfectly good mold in no time at all. You're doomed. lol

[Bruce Caulley]

PAP,

The problem is that since management types are the ones with most to lose from these initiatives that they will only pay lip service to them. If you actually do them rather than talking about them, or worse, think that talking about them IS THE SAME THING as implementing them then yes, it is a waste of time.

 

Bruce

[PeterM]

My experience with 5s has been mixed at best, endless hours in meetings with employees - half of which would be gone in six months. Managers orders to organize and clean, resulting in useful tools being sent into the furthest reaches of the warehouse, because if you don't use it within 6 months you obviously don't need it. Getting the operators and setup personnel to take ownership might have a little more impact if the POSSIBILITY(yes I'm shouting)of a raise, or even an attaboy was on the horizon. Half assed organizational efforts and neat little lines painted on the floor will never take the place of highly skilled and motivated workers.

 

_____________________

Peter Martin

mcam 3... - x - mill level 3

Senior Programmer/Milling Supervisor

Preci Mfg.

400 Weaver St. Winooski VT 05468

email [email protected]

[Gary]

We have a small tool shop and the owner pays well to his guys. He expects alot out of his help but we are paid for it. We don't have button pushers. We continually run very high profit on jobs compared to the dumbed down shops around us. He can go on vacation for a week and nothing misses a beat. He could easily hire 2 times the help for the same wage but then babysitting would be in order. I think managment needs to reward the top guys and get rid of the slackers. This trade is way to competitive nowadays for anything but go getters. A guy can get paid alot of money and still make the company money he just needs to crank stuff out.

[priden]

I hear ya Peter, we had a pre kaisan in our toolshop and the kiss-xxxx near retirement supervisor threw out everything that wasn't tied down or chained up. We ended up building a new plate for a mold that was used for changing between a 5 bolt pattern part from a 6 bolt pattern part. It was a good size plate that was in the shop to have the bolt holes touched up while the other style was running. We're missing half our specialty tools for the cnc side of the toolroom. Fixturing jigs and special clamp jigs were just tossed out per the "if you ain't used it lately, you don't need it." I think it all boils down to common sense, and it don't matter what system you use, if the guys in charge are morons, nothing is gonna get fixed no matter what new trend you come up with. I think Gary has the key, if you make the company money, you stay, if you don't, you need to be terminated with extreme justice and xxxx on the political correctness crybabies.

That's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

[Bruce Caulley]

People mistake the concept of 5s with neatness and get carried away. Most companies don't get paid for storing air, so why spend time (i.e $) to create more? I wish I had a $ for every fixture or jig that was thrown out and had to be re-made when we first started 5s. It isn't so bad now though.

 

Bruce

[Kannon]

quote:

---

I think managment needs to reward the top guys and get rid of the slackers

---

what are you gonna do without management then?

[Gary]

Probally give out bonus. But been bitten here for talking like that before. They do fine jobs just haven't figured out why all the auction flyers keep coming each week?

[priden]

Hey Kannon, Good managers have their place, but when you have two shop foremans and seven toolmakers, come on, that's just ridiculous. I'm all for the "We're in a transistion phase", but when you start approaching two indians per chief, the tribes in trouble. The funny thing is, we get the speech, " Y'all are gonna have to step it up to keep up with the Chinese competition", but you don't see them trimming the number of managers and making them work harder. We don't have time to double check before we cut steel, but they have all the time to stand around and compare golf stories or talk about their latest toys. Them sob's should be thinned down and made to pull some weight. At least that's the way it is where I work. I'm sure we're the only ones top heavy with scattered lazy idiots at the controls. We have some good managers, but if they won't help thin out the bad ones, then they're all guilty through association.

That's just my opinion and I'm probably wrong.