Take that China!!!!!

[Bruce Caulley]

Ahoy!,

One for the good guys! We have a contract to manufacture components and ship them TO CHINA!! This was only possible because we have invested in being smarter and leaner than them. WAKE UP EVERYONE!! If you are running production and don't invest in automation and lean manufacturing in the next couple of years you will get the chop.

 

/end rant/

 

Bruce

[Guest]

Bruce,

 

This is similar to what many companies went thru in the states during the 80's , Kanban, JIT, many companies were reintroduced to Deming and his thoughts. Lean manufacturing requires buy-in from management and then follow through from top management all the way down to the guy pushing the button on the floor. There are too many here who still do not see light. They view as something like ISO, which it is not.

 

Manufacturing in this country is dying I think the only question is, are we as a nation going to continue to let it?

 

From where I sit it looks like we apparently will let it die.

[smokey_44]

quote:

---

Manufacturing in this country is dying I think the only question is, are we as a nation going to continue to let it?

 

From where I sit it looks like we apparently will let it die.

---

Don't forget about Canada too....I could not agree more +100000 John

 

 

Dave

[Kannon]

quote:

---

Lean manufacturing

---

I just finished my first week of Lean Green Belt Training for Six Sigma.

Thats why I havent been able to haunt the forum for the last couple days.

I dont know if you believe in it or not.. if you get the oppurtunity to take these classes I think one would be foolish not to. The tools used in helping with lean manufacturing are priceless. Our company backs lean training and Six Sigma very strongly.

[priden]

One of the major problems with manufacturing in America today is the belief that all machinists are dirty fingernail morons who couldn't cut it in the real world. So they push their children to be paper shuffling pensil pushers. I don't blame them since you can make more money easier taking that route. The front desk secretary here makes the same wages as I do and I can't see why since if there wasn't a tool room, there'd be no plastic parts to sell. However, corporate America has pushed the "No college, No worth to the company" til most places are full of idiots and have gone out of business. The manufacturing places still around today have enough old school leaders to turn out better parts. I do believe that lean manufacturing has its place, but i don't care how good you sort and send bad parts or junk, you'll be going out of business as well. Only hope for most shops in this country who have idiots leading them down the wrong road of "if it aint kaizanned it aint right" is for China to have a Civil War and the workers there get a fair pay. Other than that, you either make superior parts and use common sense in all business decisions or suffer going under. That's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

[Müřlıń®]

Sorry to be the one to tell you guys, from where I am sitting, they held the funeral a couple years ago....

 

 

Everyone else is just dying a very SLOW and painful death...of course there are always some that do quite well, but for every one of those companies, there are 100 that go bankrupt and die off...

 

 

You can go to all the seminars that you want and train management to the gills and the average worker will sandbag every job.

 

Management cannot be out on the floor every second and with the mindset of the American workers the way it is, I see alot of people going hungry before they will change their attitudes.

[kinglouie V]

priden, well said, although my perception of lean mfg. molds your ideas merit with lean mgmt. empowering the dirty fingernail machinists.

Starting with a 5/S system of general order.

[toolall1]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manufacturing in this country is dying I think the only question is, are we as a nation going to continue to let it?

[Mjölnir]

quote:

---

Lean manufacturing

---

We just went through our first day of Lean Manufacturing training yesterday. We're primarily a mold builder, but do a little production molding too. Apparently we got some government money to do it, too.

 

I found the subjects covered quite interesting and got a lot out of it, even though it's geared more towards a production environment. I've been doing this (tool making) for over 25 years and have always had a constant desire to strive to improve. It has rewarded me well, I've always been able to manage to earn a pretty darn good living.

 

It saddening though, that the majority of the tool makers I work with, from two year apprentices to 40+ year mold makers poo-poo the concept completely, saying it can't be applied to a tool room environment.

 

Seems that they would rather just complain about foriegn competition than try to think about how they can be more competetive themselves. Feh.

[mig]

I agree with John Paris

Manufacturing in NA is dying .

[Joel Walker]

We all know that North America has the best quality Manufacturing in the world. After a bit of a hard time for the industry the people will start to notice that the things they buy today don't last as long as they use to, and I think they'll wake up to the fact that it's because it doesnt have that stamp on it that says "Made in America" or "Made in Canada" in my case. People should always try to buy products made in their own country, even if it means paying a bit more for it ("I know I do").You will get better quality. The U.S.A needs to find a way to get rid of the 700 billon $ trade deficit it has, And the governmet needs to invest in it's people, their will be growing pains, but it will make the country even stronger.

[kinglouie V]

just like other things in life, they won't get better till they hit rock bottom most likely.

 

If your country isn't producing anything than its not making money. Washing money through the service industry isn't going to make anyone economically stable.

[priden]

Actually as China, Iran, Russia and the other major powers move away from the US dollar as the world monetary reserve, we will not be importing as much from China as we are now. It will be due to the fact that the dollar will be almost worthless over there against the Euro. Then the reformation of our country will take place because we will have no choice. Without the wealth, we will have to go back to "if you don't work, you don't eat method" It'll be fine by me, but I bet you don't see too many first of the month beer bash bbq's in south anymore. It'll mean no more free rides. I don't have a problem with helping the needy, but if you are gonna create a system to distribute checks to them and make sure they aren't doing anything to better themselves instead of using that money to create daycares for their children and getting them out into somekind of working habbits, then we are turning out generation after generation of deteriorating work ethics if not totally lazy people. Until you take away the free rides, there won't be much improvement in America as a whole.

[P_Scott]

Bruce,

 

Glad to hear you have taken a little business away from the Chinese. I agree with John and priden and others. Lean mfg. is really looking at the whole system of how we used to do things and applying sensical principles to make it more efficient. Anyone with good sense and desire to improve the "old ways" can see what needs to be done with the current system. Unfortunately there are still too many companies who are managed the way it was done when we didn't have to compete with China and other foreign, government-supported manufacturing facilities. The simple truth is every company must find the best way to compete on a GLOBAL scale if they are to survive. Those that adapt and make themselves "lean" are really in the minority. They are the ones who have visionary leaders at the helm rather than the "good ol' boy" network.

 

Without the ability to make and sell our own products to other countries, our whole economy will crumble and we'll all be forced to live and work elsewhere. Today's manufacturing companies are the new "army" fighting "The Silent War". We are the infantry. We have the tools. We have the knowledge. We are the ones who will make the difference. Because we HAVE to. There's no "second place". There's no "political correctness". We either fail or succeed.

 

Not all mfg. in the "free world" is dead or dying. This very forum is proof that there is a great amount of mfg fight left in us and our good neighbors and allies. "Keep up the fight" and "Don't tread on me." The state I live in has a motto. It's "Live Free or Die". If I have to fight for my freedom, so be it. Let the CNC machinery be artillery and the cutting tools ammunition. High quality craftsmanship, competitive cost and timely delivery will win this war. Good luck to ALL.

[PeterM]

I read a lot of griping about job/industry losses on this forum, and there are many good points being expressed. Then I go to some other thread about what machine tool to recommend, and NO one ever recommends US made machine tools. Now, I know that there aren't a lot of US tool manufacturers left, but they didn't all go to Japan, and then China, many went out of buisness because machine shops Wall Marted them. How can we stem the tide of manufacturing losses in this country when the very building blocks of our industry are all made overseas? Peter

[betts]

quote:

---

We all know that North America has the best quality Manufacturing in the world

---

Sorry Joel, but there are several other places in that race. Germans, Swiss, Croats, Aussies to name a few. Now as far as the level of productivity, compared to the quality of the product output, you are right on with that.

 

As priden said, the crumble may be upon us. But that is not necessarily all bad. Some times things need shaken up a bit.

[betts]

Oh yeah, since we got a little O/T..........

 

Congrats Bruce!!!!

 

Stick it to 'em!!!!!!

[medaq]

As I am very happy to hear you are winning in a small area on the fight against china manufacturing. The reality is china is still winning. Until our goverment protects us like their goverment protects them (subsidies).

 

I quoted a few jobs out to a chinese manufactuere to see where we stood against them. Since I am a fond beleiver that I can fight against there labor costs quite easily with automation. What I found out sickened me. They can make the part and deliver it to my doorstep from overseas for cheaper than I can even buy the material. To me that is a problem in its self. And it shows what their goverment is doing to wreck our manufacturing.

 

Jim

[Kevangel]

quote:

---

You can go to all the seminars that you want and train management to the gills and the average worker will sandbag every job.

 

---

Murlin , the sandbaggers won't have a job before its over, maybe they will go drive a truck where they can sit...lot of good points and way to go Bruce.

[PeterM]

P.S. We have regained several Pratt and Whitney jobs from China after they couldn't make delivery(inco 718 high accuracy) good for us, for now. I suspect that if we can make these parts , they can learn how to make them too, then we will lose those contracts forever. Peter

[Bruce Caulley]

The image of the chinese factory full of second rate machines and menial manual labor needs to be forgotten. Some of their manufacturing facilities are top notch with the latest equipment and automation. Our General Manager toured a couple of factories in China a couple of years ago and was amazed. He is Swiss and what he saw was equal to or better than some of the best factories in Germany and Switzerland. At the moment their cheap labor is giving them the beach-head they need in this "war" but in 5 years it will be a battle of the machines. A lights out plant doesn't know what country it is in, and good lean manufacturing principles aren't nationality dependant.

 

Bruce

[Randy Morton @ Clem Industrial]

It's funny because here we are trying to implement the lean manufacturing and 5S system. In the two months I have been here, I can see the potential of where it could go, but to date all it really seems to do is tie up my guys on the floor with our 'lean manager' and nothing gets followed thru.

 

Potential...yes. Working...not at all. I don't think management is involved enough for it to happen here.

[Gary]

Large overheads are a great concern in the us. So much regulation are gov. seems to be always agnainst a companies efforts. In MI here, the govenor says we need to go hi tec she stops in a place in Traverse City that employs 6 hole people and comments on tv that this is the direction we should take. There is only like 4 companies in the world building there product because of no market demand. Ok now what is the rest of us tax payers going to do for work. Two weeks later delfi anounces its chapter 11 plans and she is again on tv complaining how dissapointed she is in the company. Companies in the US I don't think need handouts but we do need government officials to stop trying to justify their own jobs by fining and harrassing our industy. Hell you just feel like ohsa is not their to help make it safe, but instead going to fine you for something no matter what so you might as well leave out something obvious so they will do their thing and get out so people can get back to work.

[mig]

Looks like west world become crazy.

Fight against own farmers, against own industry and illegal immigrants legally striking on streets for the rights.

[steve f]

quote:

---

You can go to all the seminars that you want and train management to the gills and the average worker will sandbag every job.

 

Management cannot be out on the floor every second and with the mindset of the American workers the way it is, I see alot of people going hungry before they will change their attitudes.

---

I couldn't agree with this more. I think management should be the worker, the guy on the floor. With the amount of automation available in every level of business from manufacturing to quoting and admin, I think the only way to survive is to get beyond the classic business model of multiple levels of hierarchy. If the the button pusher on the floor is involved enough in the decision making process of running a business that they risk the personal loss (ie: their job) of a stupid decision, they become managers. If enough companies were structured this way, it wouldn't take long and the guys sitting around on their thumbs would quickly change their attitude or be out of a job...not to mention productivity would probably increase. Unions must go the way of the dinosaur if manufacturing will survive...gov'ts have already legislated protection for the average worker.

 

my rant

 

steve