Motion Master 5 axis post

[terry5357]

whenever a drilled hole or canned cycle is posted the output is x,y or z moves instead of the typical drill cycle lines X?Y?Z?R?F?

what is the deal with that. I only know enough about posts to be dangerous.

[Guest]

Welcome to the Forum

 

Which post are you using?

 

Can you post a sample of what you see and what you think you should be seeing?

[terry5357]

what I see is like you would program a peck drill by just using code z-?,z+,z-more tan first z-, and so on.

what I think I should be seing is g98 g81 x? y? z? r? f?, as regular drill line.

also let me add this is a MC post for a xxxxor Control on a Motion Master machine.

 

I'm not sure how the drill line should be if a 5axis hole is being drilled. Is there some way an angle or B C angle can be provided. I have been programming since ver 4.1 but never any 5 axis until this past jan. HELP!!!!.......lol

[chowquoe^]

here is a sample of what the code in most of our 5 axis machines appears. This code is from our Integrex post.

 

code:

---

N25

(T025025.0001 | 0.302 JOBBER LENGTH COBALT DRILL | DIA. - 25. | DIR. - 0. | SUFFIX - 1.)

5 AXIS - PECK DRILL - FULL RETRACT - SPOT 7.95MM HOLE

(DRILL 7.95MM HOLE)

G28 U0.

G28 Y0.

M302

M200

T025025.0001

G53 P1

M250 M212

G98 G0 B5. C0.

M251

G128 X0. Y0. Z0. I0. J1. K0. R1

G97 S600 M203

M248

G0 G17 X-.0108 Z.0319

Y0.

M9

M153

G83 Z-.7931 R0. Q600 F2.01 M210

G80

M154

G69.5

G28 U0. Y0.

G28 W0.

M01

---

Hope this helps.

[kinglouie V]

quote:

---

I only know enough about posts to be dangerous

---

we have something in common..

[Colin Gilchrist]

Hi Terry,

 

Almost all 5 axis posts output drill cycles using X,Y,Z position moves with the head locked at an angle ( ex. A -37. C 132.). All of the 5 axis machines that I have seen do not use a canned cycle to do drilling. A canned cycle would require that only the Z axis would move. This is impossible with the head tilted.

 

This type of cycle may exist on a machine with a Table/Table rotary configuration, where all of the rotation is in the table, but I have never seen it on a gantry 5 axis.

 

As a side note, the X,Y,Z drilling output works great!

 

Hope that helps,

 

Colin Gilchrist

[cadcam]

Some machine support canned cycles like G83 in a vector call after postioning the B & C.

But most use long hand.

[Colin Gilchrist]

What is the configuration of your machine?

[crazy^millman]

I would have to agree with Colin if the head moves you have to have long code unless the machine supports axis mapping. If this is the case then I think you can get canned can cycles supported, but will need G68 axis mapping set-up then have the correct vectors working from there. I would contact my dealer if you want to head in this direction with the post becuase this is not for the novice.

 

HTH

[Guest SAIPEM]

Your post is using 3D Coordinate Conversion.

(G128 X0. Y0. Z0. I0. J1. K0. R1)

 

 

It is establishing the hole point (X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0) as the origin for the 3d Plane Matrix.

In this case, the tilt is only on one axis (J address - rotation about/parallel to X)

 

This allows you to use the standard canned cycle code G83.

Since the positioning codes are modal, no X,Y values are needed on the G83 line.

[Guest SAIPEM]

quote:

---

A canned cycle would require that only the Z axis would move. This is impossible with the head tilted.

 

This type of cycle may exist on a machine with a Table/Table rotary configuration, where all of the rotation is in the table, but I have never seen it on a gantry 5 axis.

---

Incorrect.

 

3-D Coordinate conversion allows the use of canned drilling.

 

On much older aerospace profilers like the "Big Blue", linearized drilling would

be used because the old controllers couldn't calculate dynamically

and buffer the data.

Especially true of any 5-Axis running paper tape.

The hardware wasn't strong enough to handle real-time processing.

 

Care needs to be used for this linearized approach as not all machines

support a synchronous 3-D Rapid move.

SNK is the only one I know for sure that allows a synchronous 3-D Rapid move by default.

This is just a parameter change on a Fanuc.

The simple way around this is to use G01 for all moves and use a rapid feedrate for what would normally be G00 rapid moves.

 

I did a 5-Axis profiler machine installation for BAE Systems in Wichita.

I made the 3D Coordinate Conversion blind to the user by creating a custom G-Code for 5-Axis drilling that used a Macro-B program to do all the calculation.

It made it easier for them to modify their NCL post as they didn't need the linearized cycle logic.

[crazy^millman]

Ok Sapiem to set up a post to output the 5 axis drilling using feedrate is not hard at all. I do not like the SNK rapid tolerence when coming out of holes so I set up the post we use to allow 5 axis rapids on cutting toolpaths, but on the drilling toolpaths I have it doing all feed moves. I set the it to use the max feedrate set-up in the post and it has worked great for are SNK machines. I also think the machine he is talking about uses a Fanuc controller, but could be wrong.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Guest SAIPEM]

The SNK Synchronous Rapid is really linear interpolation at max feedrate.

 

That's what the Fanuc parameter controls.

 

[ 08-04-2006, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: SAIPEM ]

[Guest SAIPEM]

3D Coordinate Conversion on Fanuc can be confusing to some because it uses the same G68 as 2D Coordinate Rotation.

 

 

G68 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0 I0. J1 K0. R30.0

 

1) Establish the point (X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0) as the origin for the 3d Plane Matrix.

 

2) Establish the Vector for Tilt by a value of 1 in the proper address.

I0 J1 K0 establishes the Tilt Vector along the J Vector.

This is rotation about the X axis.(Typically Rotary Axis A)

It is important that you do NOT include the decimal point for the address that specifies the tilt vector.

 

3) Establish the value for the angle of rotation with address value R . (R30.0 = 30 Degrees)

 

For compound angles simply specify 3D Coordinate Conversion twice for each rotation.

 

G68 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0 I0. J1 K0. R30.0

G68 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0 I1 J0.0 K0. R15.0

 

Mazak does it slightly differently with G128.

The I,J, and K addresses actually refer to the corresponding rotary axis and not the tilt vector.

I,J,K -> A,B,C . The R address has a different meaning as well if I remember correctly.

 

My previous post referencing the G128 incorrectly stated the rotation was about X as specified by the J1.

On a Mazak, this means the rotation is about Y using rotary axis B.

[terry5357]

Hey Guys,

I really appreciate 2 things, (1) is your amazingly quick responses (2) and the unbelievable depth of your knowledge. You guys make me feel like "Ned in the First reader". However I do appreciate you answers, which some where over my head, but I get the jist of what you are saying. THe control is a xxxxor 55B, which is at best a dinosaur. It does have a few neat features if i didn't have Mastercam. Compared to any Fanuc controller From the 6MA controller on up to the 23M it is a piece of junk. However it responds to all X,Y,Z,B and C commands and I guess thats all I can ask for. All I do with it is 5-axis trimming of thermo-formed parts and an occasional 3-D pattern, which is no where near as fun as complex injection mold work or hydro form dies for aircraft work.

 

Again thank you very much for your time to qwell a bit of my confusion.

[Guest SAIPEM]

To Paraphrase Burt Reynolds in Smokey and the Bandit, Ignorance depends on where you are geographically at any given moment.

[Post dept]

Terry,

 

The new xxxxor controls will do a tilted workplane. not sure about your dinosaur. if the control supports it, it's possible to get a post to handle it.

 

Brett

[terry5357]

quote:

---

Terry,

 

The new xxxxor controls will do a tilted workplane. not sure about your dinosaur. if the control supports it, it's possible to get a post to handle it.

---

the control that we have is the "B" control which only goes up to like rev. 6.2, the newer controls "C" go up to rev 12.?

 

so I'm thinking it won't

[Guest SAIPEM]

quote:

---

3D Coordinate Conversion on Fanuc can be confusing to some because it uses the same G68 as 2D Coordinate Rotation.

 

 

G68 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0 I0. J1 K0. R30.0

 

1) Establish the point (X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0) as the origin for the 3d Plane Matrix.

 

2) Establish the Vector for Tilt by a value of 1 in the proper address.

I0 J1 K0 establishes the Tilt Vector along the J Vector.

This is rotation about the X axis.(Typically Rotary Axis A)

It is important that you do NOT include the decimal point for the address that specifies the tilt vector.

 

3) Establish the value for the angle of rotation with address value R . (R30.0 = 30 Degrees)

 

For compound angles simply specify 3D Coordinate Conversion twice for each rotation.

 

G68 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0 I0. J1 K0. R30.0

G68 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0 I1 J0.0 K0. R15.0

 

Mazak does it slightly differently with G128.

The I,J, and K addresses actually refer to the corresponding rotary axis and not the tilt vector.

I,J,K -> A,B,C . The R address has a different meaning as well if I remember correctly.

 

My previous post referencing the G128 incorrectly stated the rotation was about X as specified by the J1.

On a Mazak, this means the rotation is about Y using rotary axis B.

---

Another correction.

 

I was looking at my 5-Axis Drilling Macro and re-read the Fanuc manual.

 

The I, J or K address specifies the Rotational Axis and not the Vector.

Fanuc and Mazak both handle this the same way.

 

Address I = Rotation About X-Axis (Angle Address "A")

Address J = Rotation About Y-Axis (Angle Address "B")

Address K = Rotation About Z-Axis (Angle Address "C")

 

The Mechanical Primary or Master Axis should always be specified first.

G68 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0 I0 J1 K0 R30.0 (Angle B = 30.0 Degrees)

G68 I1 J0 K0 R15.0 (Angle A = 15.0 Degrees)

 

X, Y and Z are modal so the values aren't required for the second 3-D coordinate conversion.

 

I've uploaded my 5-Axis Drilling Macro to cadcam's FTP site.

 

The File is "G183-CUSTOM_G_CODE.NC" and is located in ../unspecified_uploads/Custom_MACRO_B/