New lathe choice

[Thee Dragracer1951]

We are a little shop. but we're busy. I need to buy another lathe. I'm looking at a Hardinge Talent 6/45 with tailstock, parts catcher probe, bar interface (small shop with no room for the barfeed at the moment) 5c and 16c nose nad hi press coolant. and a 20hp phase perfect.

 

 

Any thoughts? The list price is close to $74k. What's a good target price?

This is my second new machine, I am waiting on a new machine center to be delivered, nad I think I did OK on that deal. Just wanting a little advice...

Thanks

[chris m]

I personally am not a fan of Hardinge. We have 2 Hardinge CNC lathes; I am unimpressed by the machines and their service is absolutely non-existent in my area.

 

My personal opinion is that Okuma makes the finest CNC lathe in the world, though they are not cheap. Nakamura-Tome and Mori-Seiki also make excellent machines and are typically in the same price range as Okumas. For a less-expensive option you may want to look at Daewoo or DooSan.

 

C

[Rick Henrickson The Boeing Co.]

I do not think hardinge is your best choice, they had 2 at my old shop and they were always being repaired, mori, daewoo, dmg, look around and check to see what options they come with stock.

[Tim Simmermon]

We compared a Daewoo Puma 240 with a Hardinge. We ended up buying the Puma. It's been a great machine so far. We also have a Puma 300 LB. We got an 8" chuck, a 5C Attachement and a 16 C attachement, as well as the tool probe and parts catcher. We spent a little more than $74 K I believe. I didn't like the turret on the hardinge. If I remember right, it was set up only to take VDI tooling. I could be wrong.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Well....THIS is certainly an eye opener!!!!!!!!

 

Rick, We those new ones or the old Cobra and conquest (t42) machines?

 

I've seen a couple Daewoo's and have been pretty impressed with the machine. Don't know who sells and more important, who services them here in Seattle.

The Okuma dealership had been bouncing around from place to place in Seattle fro awhile now. That makes me a little uneasy. I had an LB15 for years that was very reliable and accurate. I talked to the Mori guys. NL1500 two axis is close on $120k after discounts. $132k list. Just too much for me. The new Duraturn is discounted to $85k at the moment. That is an option.

Having just been burned badly by Selway on service, I'm a little sensitive about that now...

One other thing, I do very little over 1 1/2" dia in alum and not much over 1" dia in stainless. most tol, are .0002

Thanks for your thoughts

Keep em comming guys

[Tim Simmermon]

quote:

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One other thing, I do very little over 1 1/2" dia in alum and not much over 1" dia in stainless. most tol, are .0002

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Some machines will hold this for the first year (.0002 Tol) or so. What I would be concerned with is holding this tolerance on a machine that is a few years old. The older Hardinges would've done it, can't say if the new ones will. Our oldest Daewoo is 15 months old and we hold .0005 all day long. Not too sure how long that will last though.

[Kyle Waters]

If you are going to hold on to the tolerances, our parent company has an Okuma LB that is about 5 years old that they use for grindless finishing in 43Hrc steel +/- .0002" held with minimal effort. We are currently flipping between an LB300MYW and a Mori NL2500SMY. While they both were well within the capability requirements, the LB did a little better. On the other side, the Mori did much better at running a 2" indexable drill thru the center of a 8" pc. of 4140. I don't have any experience with Doosan or Daewoo...sorry.

HTH

[Chris Rizzo]

I'd call CNC Machine sales. They handle Daewoo, and other lines. Very honest guys, most importantaly.

[heavychevy2155]

I bought a used Okuma Howa Act-20. It has boxways, 12 tools, Fanuc 18T, 20hp, 8in. chuck, 1120 ipm Z rapids and 9?? in X. Its being delivered tomorrow, I'm having a phase converter made as we speak. I'll tell you howthings go when I get it running.

[heavychevy2155]

If you want new call KGK Inc. they are very friendly to talk to. They may offer some discounts if you start to compare machines. Okuma Howa is very strong in my area and a very reliable machine.

[Guest]

Hardinge MADE a great toolroom lathe. My experience with their CNC equipment has been, well, spotty at best.

 

I would not rely on their CNC stuff to get the job done.

 

I've run a Daewoo, seemed like a decent machine. Our shop currently has all Mori's, when it comes to longevity and reliability, in the long run the extra money spent on a quality machine is money well spent.

 

JM2C

[Gary]

Hey heavy about what is the phase converter going to run you? I am looking to do the same with a mazak. Unless I can find a better deal on something else. I am just worried about running a phase convert on these kinds of machines. Is anyone here currently doing this? I made my own for the manual and prototrak stuff but these machines are a different ballgame.

[Guest]

Gary there is a current thread in the OT forum, about phase converters

[chris m]

We have 11 Okuma lathes and they are VERY accurate and reliable; certainly within the tolerances you stated. Several of our machines have 10s of thousands of parts on them and still hold the numbers all day long. They were $120K+ BUT the machines we run are bigger than what you are looking for.

 

We have a couple of Okuma-Howa lathes and they have served us well, but ours are 20 years old so they do not offer a comparison. Okuma-Howa is owned [at least majority-owned] by Okuma now, so I don't know what the product lines look like.

 

I'm not so sure that a DooSan is going to hold those tolerances year in and year out but I have no data to back that up.

 

C

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Gary, I have a couple of Phase Perfects in my shop. They are digital, and cleaner than the power company provides. (I get no three phase at my shop. We're just a little shop)

Chris. I would love to be able to buy a new Mori, But I can not swing it at the moment. I'll have to work my tail off and trade up when I can. That's the direction I'm moving in anyway.

I'll give CNC sales a call in a bit as well.

Thanks

[tryon]

We have 6 Hardinge CHNC's and a Quest slant bed. Some of our CHNC's are 20 years old now and they have finally turned into piles, But they have been slow as hell for many years. Having said that, we hardturn +/- .0002 regularly on probably 5 of those. Our newest Hardinges were bought in 2002 and there have been no problems yet. The Quest is a great machine but it is their top of the line model.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Well...I also have calls in to the Okuma guy for a look at a ESL6II

To the Daewoo guy. We'll see. and to Ellisons to look at a Duraturn. As I have just bought a Sharp VMC, I also am looking at a Sharp lathe.

 

We'll see...

[heavychevy2155]

I got a 40hp electric motor gave to me if I would take it man is that thing heavy. I took it to an electic motor repair shop and they are fixing it up for me $525. cash. You cannot beat that price, I thought he miss quoted me but I checked the invoce. He should have it done Friday. I'll tell you how it goes.

[Chris Rizzo]

Who reps Sharp up there? The Duraturn machines sound like pretty good bang-for-buck Japaneese machines.

 

I just today met the Washington Gen. manager for CNC Machine Sales. His name is Ron Tomlinson. 1-866-788-4500. He was making rounds down here in Portland with our area CNC guys, Gary and Rich. They are looking into using our building for setting up some demo machines.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

CNC is one of the Sharp reps here in Seattle.

I just called CNC and the office told me Ron was on his way to Portland.

NW Machine is also repping Sharp. I just bought a 2412s VMC from Carlos Lugo at NW Machine.

I asked him for a quote on the ST 10 lathe as well. It came in (list) at over 13k more than the Hardinge. I asked Ron for a quote on a Sharp as well

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Just bought a Daewoo lynx 220A

Nice machine that will do just what I need it to do and it fits my budget...

Delivery in about 2 weeks

Jim

[Rick Henrickson The Boeing Co.]

nice pick jim!

[Tim Simmermon]

Great machine Jim! The only reason we went with the Puma over the Lynx was for the swing and distance between centers.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Yea...Most of the stuff I do is really smaller dia. I think it's going to work out great. I'm going to set it up in a cell with my new Sharp VMC

[heavychevy2155]

Nice lathe, it should be a fast machine. Do you have MCX Lathe or just using Fanuc canned cycles?