DNC GURUS

[ToolMan184]

Im looking at getting Cimco DNC Max. How do most of you have this set up?

 

Option 1 - Multiple port hub with RS232 cables to each machine.

 

Option 2 - Single port devices at each machine with ethernet.

 

Which is better and why? Would like the pros and cons of each.

[Guest]

Option 1 for us.

 

We have a 16 port hub and everything is cabled back to the switch.

 

I can not speak intelligently to ethernet, I've explored it somewhat. Cimco does not at the moment at least support ethernet.

[LaszloK]

Option 1 may be less expensive but all downloading will be from one location or central server. Option 2 may cost more due to licensing if you plan on cimco at each station. This however would allow for the people at each machine to control the downloads to their machine.

[Ying Jiang]

All depends on how your shop is setup. If you already have network connections at each machine, then Option 2 is good so you don't have to run too many cables. Otherwise, go with Option 1.

 

DNC-Max is a good choice.

[Christian Raebild]

I am not a DNC guru, I usually leave the DNC stuff to our DNC techs, and they leave Mastercam and post processor issues to those of us who specialize in that part. However, I do hear something about such matters on occasion.

 

There are two options you did not list, which we are implenting pretty often now, so here are options 3 and 4:

 

3. Multiple port hub with optical fiber connections to each machine.

 

4. Wireless network with a wireless port server device at each machine (or multiple port wireless port servers serving multiple machines).

 

Option 3 is very similar to your option 1, the difference here is that optical fiber connections are not affected by electromagnetic noise generated by power cables, electrical motors and EDM machines (EDM machines generate a lot of electromagnetic noise), and they can carry the signal a good deal farther even in a "noiseless" environment.

 

Option 4 requires a wireless hub (which might be there already if your computer network is wireless) and a wireless port server at each machine (or a wireless port server with several ports might be serving several machines). The wireless port server receives the signal, and has a RS232 port to send the signal to the machine, but the signal is only going through a RS232 cable for a couple of meters (probably from the top of the control support boom or from the alarm light post). Wireless network connections operate on a frequence that is not unduly influenced by electromagnetic noise from electric motors and EDM machines, so the only concern is to avoid "signal shielding" by large pieces of metal - That is why the wireless port server is usually placed as high as feasible.

[ToolMan184]

Option 3 and 4 are out of the question. No need for fiber optic and dont want wireless.

 

But thanks for your input anyways.

[Anthony CIMCO]

 

Christian - ToolMan and I discussed this and had narrowed down suggestions to the two options he posted above. You are correct about other options for connecting CNCs back to a DNC server. Fiber is more common in Europe and Asia (at least Japan and S. Korea). Wireless is popular almost everywhere, but unless smaller shops are moving CNCs around frequently the multiport device server or PCI based multiport solutions work great, are cost effective, and reliable (with good RS232 cable).

 

ToolMan, give us a call back if you need anything.

[Jim at Gentex]

Option 1 is the way we go here too, at least in the production shop.

 

DNC Max is a solid program which allows simultaneous drip feeding to multiple machines so that's a good choice.

 

We have 2 Fadals in our production shop running from one box with a PCI multi-port hub, DNC Max, and RS-232 cables, and it works great. I ran those for several years without any data transfer problems. The only potential problem I know of is that if the physical distance between the PC and the machine is too great, data transfer problems MAY occur. Other than that you should be OK. Our machines are within spittin' distance of the PC, so that's never been an issue here.

 

We also have a Deckel-Maho in our prototype shop with an ethernet connection which works well too. With that we load programs from the network directly into the control memory which eliminates the drip feed scenario all together. We can also edit the whole program at the control which is nice for tweaking purposes.

[kkominiarek]

option 1

 

cost effective, very reliable

[ToolMan184]

Anthony,

 

I will be getting in touch with you soon. Was just getting more opinins. And thanks for all your help.

[c-hook]

There is only one machine in our shop connected via ethernet, but I must say it is a very fast, easy, and versatile way to transfer data "if" you are close to the computer transfering the info. In my case the computer is quite a distance, so in that respect it can be a little inconvenient. On the other hand, we have several roll a round computers thruout the shop that we connect via RS232. The thing I like best about this, is that the computer is right at the machine, which makes editing very convenient. But for some programs that require a high data transfer rate, you can run into problems with the program not processing fast enough, but that mostly depends on the machine control you are using.

[dan m]

options 1 and 4 are the way we went where i was working. (hoping to be back soon )

[Anthony CIMCO]

Sure thing ToolMan.

 

The interesting thing about DNC is how many factors can come into play when considering a complete solution. In fact, the software is probably the easiest part of a solution to evaluate. The other parts; serial hardware, serial cable, network hardware and the performance and management/maintenance issues that go along with the different h/w choices require the most consideration.

 

c-hook's example, for example, illustrates how many options you have to choose from.

 

I remember when someone (name and company omitted to keep from embarassing them...) started telling everyone in the mid 90s that DNC was dead. Their claim was that Ethernet based controls would replace serial interfaces - and thus the demise of DNC was at hand. Even if a company had an Ethernet option on every control there are benefits to a serial interface that, in many cases, outweigh any potential benefits of the Ethernet connection. For example, in most cases 115k baud serial interfaces can easily keep up with all but the most high speed applications. However, by going serial you have more flexibility in "tracking" and controlling CNC program transfer activity. And, if your CNC control supports it, serial interfaces are a very cost effective solution for collecting MDC type date for machine monitoring purposes.

 

The bottom line is there is no silver bullet solution for everyone. Fortunately, most DNC companies, and many members on this forum, have put in the hard work over the years to figure out what works and what works better. Both the software and hardware today are much more reliable and less expensive than the solutions folks had to work with back in the late 80s and early 90s. So in the end, we are all a lot better off. (Anyone remember tape readers/punches and BTR boards? D'oh!)

 

In your case, you have many options. Since your CNCs are "generic" (from a serial interface standpoint) and the physical layout of your facility is within "normal" operating ranges of all the most popular types of serial hardware devices you are going to be able to get a reliable solution that will be easy to manage and maintain - at a very reasonable cost.

[ToolMan184]

quote:

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you are going to be able to get a reliable solution that will be easy to manage and maintain

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With my time schedule. This is the ticket for me.

 

Thanks again Anthony.