x2 and vista

[pvmntrider]

i jus bought a new notebook with vista and an ati x1800 card, Im running x2, without the service pack. (im in high school trying to learn with a student edition of mastercam and mastercamm doesnt feel that a student trying to learn should be elidgable for updates unless i sell my life for a comercial version),anyway just justifying not having x2mr1. so, one of the gitches i have noticed on my new machine is that the graphics background will randomly go blank/white. and sometimes if i close up a file and open a new the old part will be "stuck" (for lack of a better word) in the background. any ideas? i dont know if this is my graphics card or vista or if this stuff has been addressed with mr1,

 

 

thanks

[gcode]

Microsoft dropped OpenGl support in Vista.

Since OpenGl is the graphics engine for most

Cad/Cam software all cadcam apps perform poorly in Vista, including Mastercam.

Some people are successfully running Mastrercam on Vista machines, but performance is very poor.

Mastercam says MR1 is Vista comaptible, but I have

no experience with Vista.

Since you are stuck with a student edition I would concider rolling your laptop back to XP Pro

though I've heard that can be a nightmare.

Maybe someone else with Vista and ATI experience can give you better advice.

[doyleg]

man is it great to see someone in h.s. learning this or what? we need all of you that we can get.

[Keith @ Solid Code Solutions]

The preformnce is not bad in Vista if you can get past the graphics issue. I've been having the same issue with it hanging on to an old image like it is caught in a graphics buffer and it seems to toogle back and forth when when you hover or cross over from the OP manager to the main graphics window. My guess is that this is not entirely a Vista (lack of an OpenGL exclusive platform)becuase OpenGL is still being used as far as I know.

 

quote:

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Despite what seems to become a generalized belief, Microsoft did not drop support for the OPEN Graphics Language with the introduction of Windows Vista. Quite on the contrary in fact as some of the Microsoft representatives have stated that the claims of the Redmond Company dropping OpenGL support from Windows Vista has left them scratching their heads.

 

“Microsoft doesn’t implement hardware-accelerated OpenGL directly – we offer a mechanism that allows hardware vendors to integrate a hardware-accelerated implementation of OpenGL (called an ICD or installable client driver) that utilizes their hardware into Windows. This has been the case since Windows 2000, and hasn’t changed much in Windows Vista,” revealed a product manager on the Microsoft graphics team.

 

One thing that indeed changed with Windows Vista is the WDDM. You may already be aware of the fact that Windows Vista comes with an overhauled Windows Display Driver Model. And if not, then you are now. The Windows Display Driver Model refers to the new DirectX driver architecture in the operating system.

 

The bottom line is that the installable client drivers do not ship inbox with the operating system. Windows Vista users will only install the ICDs together with the driver package from the hardware manufacturer. But the changes introduced to the WDDM impacted directly all display drivers. What this means is that because of the new WDDM, all the display drivers had to be re-written together with the OpenGL implementations. Not an easy task for the hardware manufacturers, but not Microsoft's responsibility.

 

“Another thing that has left a lot of people confused has been around OpenGL applications and how they work with the new desktop composition system, called DWM. DWM is implemented using Direct3D 9, and as such it was originally thought that OpenGL applications could not interoperate with DWM and DWM would need to shut down in the presence of an OpenGL application. This is not the case. Windows Vista provides a mechanism for hardware vendors to use to integrate an OpenGL application with DWM, which acts in the exact same manner as D3D9 and GDI integration with DWM via shared surfaces (a new feature of WDDM),” the PM added.

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We have 3 parties minumum here Microsoft Vista, Nvidia(in my case) and CNC Software......Hang on....wait a minute is Backplot and Solid Verify written by CNC Software or is it just implemented by them and if so could this be part of the problem as it seems that this is where part of the problem within Vista arises????

[Jeremy Haage from MCAM NorthWest]

Many have had good luck by disabling desktop composition. You could also try to adjust for best performance which turns off a lot of the graphical bells & whistles in the OS. I believe both of these methods will disable the "Windows Aero" theme so you won't have some of the fancy eyecandy (transparent windows comes to mind).

 

Right-Click on "Computer" then go to Properties. On the left hand side, click on Advanced System Settings. Go to the Advanced tab, then click on the "Settings" button under the Performance heading. On the "Visual Effects" tab you can either just uncheck the "Enable desktop composition" option, or you can set the radio button to "Adjust Windows for Best Performance" which will uncheck all options.

 

After this procedure if you are left with the plain old Windows 2000 looking Start Button / Task Bar, then you can go into Control Panel's Appearance and Personalization category and then choose "Change the Theme". You should be able to set it to Windows Vista and get the new Vista Start Button / Task Bar back.

[gcode]

Mastercam is not the only Cad/Cam company

having issues with Vista. As far as I know, they have not put out a Vista ready release of SW2007

yet.

SW2008 will be going into beta soon, I don't know if it will be Vista ready or not.

Some time ago, I posted links to some SolidWorks benchmark tests showing 80% performance hits

with SW2007 running Vista vrs WinXP.

If you go to the Dell website and look up thier

Cad/Cam workstaions, they still ship with WinXp.

If I go to the Nvidia website, there is no Vista driver available for my 2 year old Quadro FX-3000

video card.

Despite the protests of MS software engineers

I cannot think of a single good reason to try

Vista on a cad/cam computer.

 

[ 04-17-2007, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: gcode ]

[pvmntrider]

thanks for the input, this is very helpful, i think i might try dual booting xp and vista.

 

 

I thought that vista ready solid works was already out?

[Craig Madsen from CM3D]

Jeremy is correct,

 

Just disable the 'desktop composition' and Mastercam runs fine.

 

Start / Control Panel / Performance Information and Tools / Adjust visual effects (on the left) / uncheck 'Enable desktop composition'.

 

You will lose the cool 3d page selection function - it will revert to the 'old style' selection they used to call 'cool switch'. But that beats the garbage showing up on the screen while zooming in, and the annoying 'white screen' in the graphics background.

 

The latest Nvidia drivers (released today) don't change this as a requirement.

[gcode]

quote:

---

I thought that vista ready solid works was already out

---

It may be, I let my maintenance expire a couple of months ago and havn't been keeping track of it.

 

from the SolidWork Tech help page

 

I can't cut and paste from a PDF, but it says performance will be poor and to stick with XP

if you're doing large assemblies.

 

[ 04-17-2007, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: gcode ]

[Keith @ Solid Code Solutions]

Gcode

 

The Beta Version of Vista SW2007 SP2.2 is avaliable. I don't think it has been offially released as of yet and if your not using Vista it wouldn't matter.

 

I dual boot my systems and still use XP but with taht said I also try to solve and work around the problems and deal with a certain amount of the lumps along the way. This should be apparent considering I'm using Mastercam.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not bagging on Mastercam and I'm aware that other vendors are using OpenGL are having issues, but everyone has their roll to play in dealing with these problems. I was just pointing out a problem and a opinion.