fanuc robodrill trodemaster

[Elmo Crow X]

anybody out their run one of these, wanting some feed back on your experience.

thanx

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

It's the only Electrode Machine I've run so take my personal evaluation for what it's worth. I like the Robodrills period. The Fanuc 31i Control is POWERFUL!!! The thing is SCARY fast, you get a ton of features standard that are options on other machines. Give it a serious look. I hear other machines are capable (Roku-Roku, Chiron, etc...) as well but I've never put my hands on them so...

 

Have your local dealer do some test cuts for you and see for yourself.

 

HTH

[kunfuzed]

I saw a machine shops equipment list, and they seemed pretty proud of this addition.

[Lars Christensen]

Please do not get fooled by the laser probe though, I have a NC4, and I would rather have had a touch probe. We thought it would be faster to check for broken tools, but that is not true. They have on Renishaws web-page where they are checking with coolant on, that is just a show.

 

Lars

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I also prefer touch for tool breakage detection... Though... when you get down to small diameter tools >.060" , you don't always have a choice because the touch style can actually break these tools.

 

On another note, correct me if I'm wrong please, but don't MOST shops cut their graphite dry??? In this case, laser gives you options for tool checking (broken/worn teeth, tool radius checks, form tool chacks, etc...that just simply are not available via a touch style mechanism.

 

As always, you gotta look at the application and what you need to check to make the right choice

[Lars Christensen]

quote:

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I also prefer touch for tool breakage detection... Though... when you get down to small diameter tools >.060" , you don't always have a choice because the touch style can actually break these tools.

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That is very a good point

 

quote:

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On another note, correct me if I'm wrong please, but don't MOST shops cut their graphite dry??

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DOOHHH, I am a idiot , yes of course coolant would not be a problem.

 

quote:

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laser gives you options for tool checking (broken/worn teeth, tool radius checks, form tool chacks, etc.

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Personally I have not have much luck with this (With Renishaws help)In cases where I tryed to check numbers of flutes and worn teeth I found it very inrelieble. I most say that our sensors are placed pretty far from each other, and I am sure that have a effect.

 

As always James, damn good point from you

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

There's actually a couple of issues at play when you get unreliable measurements with lasers including (but not limited to);

 

1)"ringing" - the movement of the laser arm when it rapids to position in Z (which is the most troublesome axis). Only time(read cycle time) can fix it once it starts. It is more prevalent in Horizontals where the heads are spaced greater than the travel of the machine. Depending on the mfr. of the bracket, I've seen VISIBLE vibration as long as 5 seconds after the last rapid position move in Z.

 

2) "Beam" size - The diameter of the beam has a LOT of effect on the sizes of features, shape of features and diameters of tools you can effectively measure. Generally the smaller the beam the more effective in measuring they are. But keep in mind that just getting a smaler beam will not always solve issues. It may need to be a combination of beefing up the bracket(s) AND smaller beam to get it exactly the way it needs to be.

 

HTH

[#Rekd™]

Hi James and Lars,

 

We have a NC4 on our machine with some noted problems. The tools must be clean (no oil, dust etc) so graphite dust would be and issue. The spindle taper needs to be dry and clean.

 

The Renishaw guy set ours up (we made the bracket out of .25 heavy wall 1.5 x 3.0" tubing). The sending unit and receiver lens need to be cleaned. You need to check the alignment of these by checking the voltage.

 

We just use ours for measuring the tools since we only do one offs and mostly short jobs.

 

How old is your NC4 Lars? Any other problems?

 

The Renishaw guy in our area is a freind of mine so he helps me out if there is a problem.

 

John

[Lars Christensen]

John,

Our machine is about 6 months old, everything is mounted by Methods on 2.5 x 2.5 tubing. Everything seems to be pretty rigid. I have only good things to say about the help I received from both Methods and Renishaw.

One of our 1st. issues was that we had the thought when we bought the machine that we could rapid through the beam, decreasing toolbreakge checks from maybe 8 sec. (touch probe) to a couple of seconds with the laser. Renishaw was very helpful . Still toolbreakage is still a 6 sec. cycle.

Then I started to play with checking wear and flutes on the cutters, and I did not find it that dependable, plus rather time consuming, I think that a spindle probe is more what I need on that machine. We just got a Haas with a Renishaw spindle probe, and I am playing with that one now, hoping to succeed to the point where I can justify the price for one on the Matsuura.

I want to make clear that I am not trying to bash Renishaw, Methods or NC laser probes, the support I have gotten from these guy's have been awesome, but I think that I had this feeling that laser probes was the new sliced bread, James definitely have some good point where applications for a laser probe would be a huge benefit from a standard touch probe, but in our application we would properly have been just as happy with a touch probe and then added a spindle probe.

Sorry this is becoming such a long post, I just have to attempt to make it clear that this was no other than my own fault and inexperience.

I just do not want Elmo or anyone else to be all amazed that we now are using Reagans Starwars programs in our shops, and thinking that standard touch probes are old days talk.

 

Lars

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I think that often times MT Distributors/Dealers and Builders will encourage customers to pursue "new" (read Laser TLM in this particular case) things as opposed to someting simple and the right thing not because they intentionally want to steer a customer down the wrong path but purely because it is new and/or exciting and "shows well".

 

I would say by and large I am a fan of Lasers BUT, only in certain situations and ONLY when using one does not remove Z axis travel in my machine. If I have to give up Z axis travel and it is not absolutely positively necessary (i.e. I run a LOT of small tools that could be damaged by a contact measurement type system) then I will spec a contact measurement system every time. Tool measurement time is faster and it's not nearly as sensitive to environmental factors

 

One thing I will say about Renishaw, for years their service attitude was xxxx poor and I would go out of my way to use anything but Renishaw.... but as of late, it seems they have been listening and at least in our area Service and Applications support has improved dramatically, to the point now that I would not mind specing out a Renishaw System for a customer. But, I still look at each individual application to determine what is the best system for them. Right now, there is Blum, Marposs, Optodyne, and Renishaw (in alphabetical order) and each system has it's advantages and capabilities.

 

This has been a good discussion. Hopefully people have benefitted.

[Elmo Crow X]

i was wanting some info on the machine and got a lesson in lasers as well.

all is appreciated.

[Lars Christensen]

We only got the standard Robodrill with a 14i control, I think it is a 1999. That little bugger just runs, I am not sure how many hours as I am sitting here at home, but I would have no problem recommending that machine, for what it is worth for you Elmo