Why Solids?

[spade117]

Hey, I need some more ideas as to why my fellow employees and I would be benefitted from taking a mastercam solids training course.

 

This is what I need to reply to:

 

quote:

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Could you please provide me some information on the benefit/value taking the MasterCam Solids course will provide our business and you as employees. What skills you will gain, how you determined that it was the course to take to gain the skills, etc. I need this to support my efforts to attain grant funding.

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[doyleg]

being able to draw/program faster would be the main one i would thimk. it will also allow you to be able to make changes to models that you already have.

[Keith @ Solid Code Solutions]

Do you design in solids already and if so in what?

[spade117]

quote:

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Do you design in solids already and if so in what?

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We have solids already, just trying to learn more about it.

 

I don't understand what you mean by *and if so in what?*

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Spade,

 

I am not sure what you mean. The benefits will depend on several things. First of all do your customers send you solid models to program from. Second are you already familiar with working with solids. If you are working with solids a lot or need to work with them in the future the course may help.

 

Justin

[crazy^millman]

1: Working with solids gives you a true representation of the part you are working with in a 3d environment that representative of the same environment you are machining them in.

2: Solids can be used to makes better quality set-up sheets, operation sheets, and inspection data to catch possible mistake in programming and on the floor.

3: Solid can be used for making a lot of the toolpaths from without having to make any geometry which will also limit mistakes by programmers since the solid will be the driving geometry behind the toolpath.

4: You can use the solid inside of verify to insure your toolpaths do not machining areas you do not want.

5: At our company we make solids of the part in each stage of the operation and then use that make our CMM programs to check operations to insure the floor is matching what we have programmed it to.

6: Depending on the work you are looking to go after more and more companies are going to a MBD system( Model Based Definition where the solid contains all of the Tolerances, Datums, and other things needed to Manufacture the parts.) This will give your company a completive edge over the companies that think suing and going with solids is unwise direction and investment in their future.

7: Solid data IMHO is a more reliable way to insure your models have no errors. Surface models by nature have errors to a certain degree. Solids are always healed models were as surfaces it can always be pain to fix them costing time and money to fix. Where as if you understand solids and use solids you have a better chance to use a good and more accurate model for your machining and manufacturing.

 

HTH

[Keith @ Solid Code Solutions]

quote:

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I don't understand what you mean by *and if so in what?*

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Are you importing from a Solid Modeler, are you or will you be modeling in Mastercam exclusively. Yada Yada Yada

[spade117]

OK - let me explain further... we would like to take the course basically for solid toolpathing, drawing and designing in solids in something that we are already familiar with.

 

 

I just want to be able to make some points for a reply to the message I received.

 

Ron gave some good stuff, Thanks.

[Keith @ Solid Code Solutions]

Ron,

 

You sound like a salesman.

 

All that Ron is saying is true in respect to the advantages of solids. Keep in mind that Solid Modeling in Mastercam is limited, toolpaths on solids makes the whole process slower (alot of momentary hangs on simple prismatic operations).....

[billystein]

hi,

in my own case solids have allowed me to draw much better and faster when it comes to 3d modeling. i used to draw with wire and surface and spent years trying to learn the tricks. back then i had a backup. when i got stuck i could go to my boss who was really good at mastercam. he could generally fix anything that i came across.

at the time i didn't know of anyplace to learn how to draw. cad designing wasn't in city colleges yet and you were kind of on your own.

i started using solids in version 8. in 6 months of self teaching i could draw better than 15 years of drawing with wire and surface. i think the most trouble i had was the final radii that ususlly completes most models. .015 edge breaks and such. with solids the tricks to making fillets are not easy to find but they are easy to use.

for example when a radius doesn't propagate properly you can put a .001 rad here and there and then things come together well. with surfaces there would be many times that i never could fillet surfaces.

did i mention that solids are much faster to draw with?

i have dabbled in solidworks and it is said to work much better than mastercam but i use mastercam exclusively.

 

billy

[Troy Gossett Indepak Inc.]

Spade I would consider getting a on site training session for just you and your Programmers. The courses that I have taken tend to be generic and inevitably someone brings up a question that will never pertain to your shop and you just spent your money getting someone else's problem solved. By bring them to your shop your questions get answered.

 

Ron made some good points. I would add that if your shop is working in 4+ axis(or looking to do so) you will see major benefits in getting some Solids training.

[crazy^millman]

Keith I have to disagree about it limits. It is not Solidworks, Pro-E, Catia, but I can make just about any solid in them I have ever needed to with no problem and do it very quick as well.

 

As far as slowing it down it is all relative to what you are doing and looking to get out of Mastercam and the system you are running it on. You looking to do 30 meg solids with 3000 surfaces on a 1 gig system that is not dual core or a Xeon then the computer is the problem not Mastercam. Again so many cheap out most times and it will greatly benefit you as well as the company to learn and use solids on a more regular bases.

[Keith @ Solid Code Solutions]

Ron,

 

You can disagree all you want. I am a long time user of Mastercam as well its Solids option. Trust me I realize that this is not Solidworks or the like it was never intended to compete, it was intended to complement the use of people already using solids and to be offered to small shops as a basic turn key modeling/programming investment. All that is fine.

 

What I have issues with are features that that don't either work as advertised or features that are more a hinderence as opposed to a feature that should work well and not give you more grief.

 

If you'd like to talk about processing power and it being the root of all my problems, I admit the PCs that I am running are not the most current or top of the line out there but they are repectably good machines with my laptop being the best of the lot.

 

I would gladly drop 8 or so grand on a new system if CNC would tell me that that would fix alot of the pending issues with all the quirks and short commings that seem to be ever present regardless of release. I have recently compared functionality up against competeing CAM Products to do with Solids and find for the most part these systems working quite fluid whether this be creating or working with solids, creating toolpaths on solids that more associative to its features as well as the parent model.

 

Mastercam has a lot of great feature and has been benchmark for alot of feature for other CAM products in the industry. When it comes to solids this is more a selling feature than a productive tool.

[LaszloK]

I will support ron on the solids modelling issue. All of our mold designs are done usine MC solids. They are 100% complete with all fillets and corner radii intact. We do this even when we get a solids works part file. Key benefits are: easier to incorporate changes down stream, smaller part files, no translations prior to CAM, and more options to assist CAM programmers (easier to manipulate native solid than imported one). The only weakness I have found is with lofted/swept geometries. I would like to have more control over how the blending between sections takes place. These lofted/swept operaations are only needed on 2% of the molds we produce. Explain the reason for solids in dollars and cents. It is a whole lot cheaper for us to use MC solids. It is cheaper to purchase and maintain. It is more efficient to generate the NC code.