Mastercam on the shop floor?

[Bob K]

I am just curious to know if anyone using this forum is using Mastercam as a shop floor CAM solution. Or maybe you know someone in your area who is.

If so, what is the application and what kind of success are you having?

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I have a question to pose. Since "Shop Flor Programming" means different things to different people could you elaborate a little please?

Thanks,

James Meyette

[Trevor Bailey]

Mastercam is the leading CNC programming software in the world. I would say that shops everywhere are having success with it from 2d, 3d, lathe, and wire applications. Some of my customers even use it as their design system.

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Trevor Bailey

[email protected]

Dealer

[johns]

We have 5 mill seats on the shop floor, one for each CNC. Each operator is his own programmer and programs while the previous toolpath is running. They know which tools are available and each has his favourite sequences. There is no toolpath tryout or dry run or documenting. This suits us because we make plastics molds and each one is different. There is no archiving of programs or associated paperwork. We only keeep the data of the mold, and any electrodes used. I can't imagine having only button pushers on one of a kind jobs, you need people who have to care about what they do and they will apply themselves if given the chance. You can also quickly weed out the people who don't care about their future or the well being of the company by giving them responsibility.

[Bob K]

James,

To me "shop floor programming" is having the same person who created the program also set it up and run it in the CNC.

We also manufacture molds for the plastics industry like johns above. And I would like to see us get to the point where his company is with programming and operating. I agree with his comments 100%, unfortunately my boss does not.

Right now my company is set up with 2 VMC's and 1 retro-fitted Bridgeport CNC. We run 1 operator per shift (3 shifts total), so this person is responsible for keeping 3 machines running for his 8 hour shift. We have 2 seats of MCV8 and 1 seat of another software which are used by 3 programmers in the "CAD/CAM Dept."

I've been trying to convince my supervisor to give shop floor programming a try. But he appears very set against the idea. His comment was "that is not a very efficient way to do things."

I agree that having 1 operator with 3 machines to run and a program to write is not good. But there are many options to explore and he seems unwilling to even look into the idea.

Any feedback pro or con is very appreciated.

Sorry for the length of this post.

 

 

 

[Kenneth Potter]

shop floor programming & i like cause if gives me a chance to look for improvements in my machining senerios.I record those improvement & save them as template mc8 files & bring them in to my new projects as i need them. What works here,what works there & on the fly tool subtitutions when the tooling manager starts bean counting. I,m also doing the cad data, many times drawing the the complete model from 3 veiw ortho prints. "My boss trust me"

In short i,m having a great time !

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Most of my customers use Mastercam for "Shop Floor Programming" in that sense. Probably about 60 or so percent. Sorry for the dumb question but many people define "SFP" as physically having a computer next to the machine so on and so forth. If that were the case, I'd have to say only about 10 percent or so do that. They usually have their PC's in a room close to the shop floor to do their programming then the programmer/setup guy/machinist (wearer of many hats) does their thing. I did everything when I was a Machinist using Mastercam.

James Meyette

[cadcam]

i agree when doing proto typ mold ,akeing be the the man a many hates is tha fastest and best way to be.

i have and some time for customers i still need to be that person.

some times the get up and go is great..

cadcam

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jay/ aka cadcam

Precision Programming

cnc programming &

Predator reseller

email: [email protected]

web: www.ppcad.net

[Kenneth Potter]

One point that i must add to the method of shop floor programming. Have all shop floor programmers follow the same format as possible. Post output code lableing, Layer"level" management.Job work order doucumentation,& strict file management protocols must be follow. If not you'll have computers with nc & Mc8 files all over the place with only that operator knowing what its what! And if by some chance that a repete job is coming up, the operator has to post it out all over again.Turn in all data over to Cad Dept for reveiw, extra posting " other machine types" storage & backup. If not your gonna have a mess.

Just my three cent in yall.

A cadcam room manager provides these protocols. ( Q S 9000)

[This message has been edited by Kenneth Potter (edited 10-25-2000).]

[beaver]

Hi Bob.

At my previous job , I had a laptop computer with MasterCam v7 and did all the programming

right on the shop floor.I had to make programs ,set up and run two VMCs ,machining all types of forging dies (most 3D). I had plenty of time to do all the programming while the parts were being cut.I even did some Cad drawings since our engineer was too busy.

I don't know how your company can stay profitable with three Cad/Cam guys for three mold makers. They must be doing some really complex molds to keep three programmers busy all the time.

[marco]

I totally agree with (beaver) MasterCam on the shop floor is an essential. While the machine in doing it's work you can be setting up you next job.

Who else knows better but yourself on what tool you will be using what offsets etc..You also have the ease to make any necessary changes to your program at your finger tips.

[Bob K]

Thanks for all the great input.

I guess I am seeing many good and positive points to having CAM on the floor. Or more specifically having our set-up guys/machinists more involved with the programming.

Yes beaver we do have some fairly complex geometery in our mold designs. But that just adds to the amount of time to calculate toolpaths. Thus making time to do the next set-up in the CNC.

Is there anyone who has had a negative experience with CAM on the floor?

 

 

[fire4]

I will half to agree with Kenneth in his above statement. We have 1 seat of mill8 level 3 and six different people doing cad and cam work on complex erospace part. The biggest problam we have is when the jobs done and stored in the proper place and the paper work is done. Sometimes it does't get done or other times when it does get done you still can't set it up and run it without hafting to make some kind of changes. Then management says well we just run that same part last week why can't we just set it up and run it.

If you do get into SFP set-up some protocals and stick with them !

I have been working with mastercam for about 2 years now and I think it is very user friendly and I love all the feature it has to offer.

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

This largest negative to SFP is when there are no set "standards". So unless the same person works on a project from start to finish, it's a mess.

I have one customer that deals with that issue this way. They assign certain levels to certain things. In the operations Manager, they assign groups to Setup Operations and name the groups accordingly. This is how I do things as well. All of my levels are labeled as well as my toolpaths. So as a consequence, anybody with some Mastercam experience can open my part see what I've done and How I've done it. Granted, this method is a bit more time consuming than everything being on Level 1, and no labeling but it is far more organized.

Just my .02

James Meyette

[Kenneth Potter]

SFP in my opinon can only truly work if management truly backs it up ! That is hold meeting with all SFP programmers to discuss the issues.Promote information sharing not information keep away cause it makes him look like a hero mentality" get rid of that guy". Ya got to have team work.

[johns]

Since each of our mills has a PC /MC about 6 feet from the control, our systems are on the shop floor. The only MC seat in an office is my design system. Apart from doing some design, I review all designs ( from AutoCad, Cadkey, Pro E ) in MC before the file is released to the mills. We are networked and I have a single directory that everyone has access to, to get their math data from. I may have a full 3D design sitting there weeks in advance of milling. This allows that ALL revisions are in one place and everyone has access to it. We found that when we had 3 CNCs, it was best to have one experienced person troubleshoot provided designs so the operator/ programmer didn't have to separate layers, delete duplicates, etc. They get clean files ready to use. My job involves all the prep work I used to have to do when I was the only CNC guy here. One office guy for 5 CNC mills at present is much better than one operator, 3 programmers for 3 machines ( Bob K). Right now, if any of our guys are ill or on holidays, we have a pool of 4 others to keep jobs on track. An excellent reason by itself. If you have big part(long calculating times), do it off hours or get a faster system. A P!!! 800 is under $1800 Cdn and can pay for itself in time saved in one job.

[Toby]

We currently have only one full time programmer for 32+ spindles and keep one seat of MC out on the floor for that last minute blow out job/tuneup. Although we have 5 networked seats of MC one challenge, that does well in the long run, is to keep a standard programming format that all follow. It could turn into chaos quickly if it was left to a programming free for all. Since the majority of our work is repeat/contract we find it advantageous to keek track of all proven programms and set up notes via the server. The newer versions of MC (7,8) are excellent to evaluate tooling procedures and camming approaches.

Enjoy,

Toby

[Kenneth Potter]

Like i said managment must really back the SFP method. I'v been to some shops trying to set up SFP & its turned into a real disaster

The reasons i found are the programmers them selfs " in shop competition" I,m the guru mentality. That person Will resist any moves toward SFP cause he feel treated about his position.& management backs off cause that guy holds all the cards. No information sharing.Everything has to go thru him/her.A one person show.& dont step on my territory.

!!!!