Stand up and be counted.

[Tony]

http://www.moldanddiefairtrade.org/

This is for a few people I know

Dave E,SvenB,Duke,Cheap Tommy,Very pregnant Ryan W/new house,"francis",Mike N,Mike Y,Marky Marc,papa smurf,Eddie ,Jerry p,Texas Jerry,Big Bob,J Wokas,Jimmy D,Dennis m,Ray,Wayne,Jeff"Shaggy"J,Frank T,Pat,The Reck Bros.Dan S.,Kurt B,Tim C, Lawerence H,Ziggy ,

Rich F and last but least Internet Scott"Hardway"

I don't believe that manufacturing should vanish (like it is, no apprentices,and no job's)in this country.we might need to have someone around to whip something up in short notice some day....

Tony

 

[ 04-21-2002, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: Tony ]

[Tony]

Here is a reply from another board (Good

Lord guy's) So sad, not one reply here:(

 

"I use to be the Union rep for the IAM local here in Seattle for Boeing.

 

I am now in management and have traveled and worked in all parts of this wonderfull planet.

What I found is our workers be they want to except it or not are not the smartest out there. At one time this was true but not today. We are starting to off load engineering work to Russia because we gave the local union a goal to set. They had to re-design a part on our product and were given the goal of a reduction of 20% mooving parts and 15% weight reduction They did quite well by coming with in 3% of the goals set. Unfortunatly the same thing was offered to our Russian brothers.

They were able to reduce the moving parts by 63% reduce weight by a little over 28% and encrease ease of manufacturing by eliminating the need for non value added labor. This translates into less workers needed to assemble the parts.

My ex union friends complained this would cost jobs. But the bottom line is to make them happy we offered both designs to our customers. We have sold Zero systems of my old friends and over 200 of the Russian designed systems. If we would have listened and caved to the union most of them would have been layed off due to no products being sold.

The one thing we have is the most efficent work force in the world we get more bang for the buck. We have offers everyday from countries who want to offset production in their country due to cheap labor rates. But there are hidden costs like lower productivity taxes, shipping, trained workforces, ect

 

So in the end it isn't ever an easy answer as to where we will build or buy product. but in the long run more americans are employed due to higher sales volume. God I wish there was an easy answer"!

 

[ 04-21-2002, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: Tony ]

[Die Sinker]

Just my .02 here. This country's workforce IS the smartest in the world! I am in a very small die shop in So. Cal. We used to produce many forging dies for Boeing. That is by far the most predatory company on the face of the planet. If anyone has seen the program on PBS on the 777, you know exactly what I mean. A small manufacturing plant in Australia was making tail section parts for the 777. They had a short margin for delivery-almost impossible to meet, but they did. But of course some engineers in Seattle made some last minute design changes to their parts and said the small company STILL had to meet the deadline. They didn't and delivered their parts late and of course were fined by Boeing in their infinite wisdom. There are many stories like this that I know about personally. As far as the Russians meeting a faster and more productive criteria, that's pure horse****! We had a couple of Russian die makers working for us. They were worthless and technically in the manufacturing Dark Ages. They had no clue! Maybe Boeing and these other worldwide manufacturers should have thought about this many years ago when they started sending work overseas(Cheaper is better attitude). Because very soon we WILL be in a war with Iran and probably most of the Middle East. There won't anybody left to do the defense work and these United States will be in BIG DO-DO. If I sound bitter, you're right. There should be many more replies to this thread. Hopefully this will start it.

 

Gary Armitstead

Santa Fe Enterprises (Forging dies for defense)

Burbank, CA

[Scott Bond]

Good Morning

I am Scott Bond,I am A Craftsman. I know what to do ,I also know what not to do. Apprentices must be smart and willing to learn, master craftsmen must be smart and willing to learn. The master craftsmen must identify the requirements of the project, allow the requirements of the project to run the job, the apprentice must follow. The country origin of the craftsmen doesn't matter,only that he knows what he's doing, and does it.

My.02

With today's marketing;;;

"If the product sells it's a good product".

----This way must vanish----

 

I was raised in the trade with a totally different style,;;;

" If you make a good product it will sell"

--- the HARDWAY --------

 

As far as free trade/fair trade

I am not convinced that the politicians can correct trade problems ,only better products. If we the craftsmen make products with the priceless ingredient of Honor and Integrity,it will speak for us in the market place and

there will be no need for the politicians to interrupt.

[gary dunn]

i disagree with you Scott, mainly about US not being as smart as we need to be. Certainly, to some degree, that may be true. However, i think,

it is attitude, not smart. First of all, "Union shops" i have never worked in one, for one reason. if you work in one, (atleast down here in texas) you don't have to produce, you can't get fired, even though you can get laid off. Under that kind of system, there is no need to "work at it". Whereas, those of us who consider ourselves "professional" (myself being

a professional moldmaker), we see it as we have to work, probably until we die, because it is our responsability to feed our wives and children. It is not our resonsibilty to skate, slack off, gold brick, or do as little as possible and then collect a pay check for it. My opinion, that is what happened to manufacturing in America. Granted, the unions did what needed to be done, in the beginning, but the unions wnet to far and

allowed their men to slack off. A good example from one of my friends who went to work in a union shop down here in Ft Worth. In a regualr day, i might change the wheel on the grinder 20 times, while doing form grinding. AND re-dress it myself to fit my needs. In my friends job, everytime he changed a wheel, he got written up for doing someone elses job. Then he got written up for dressing the wheel. Heck, he got written up 7 times in the first 15 minutes of his first day, before he ever even started up a machine.

Now i don't know who unions work up north but that is what happens down here in the south. That is enough to ruin and good man's work ethic.

So i say, it's the attitude of the worker/craftsmen, possibly even the college boys.

IF WE the manufacturers had more gumption, then possibly, we might not be loosing our livelyhood

to foreign labor. Just in case you haven't noticed, people in other parts of the world might not have the skill level we have BUT, they have GUMPTION. They work hard, they try hard, and they make the best possible use with what they have to work with. I compare it to American women. They are spoiled, therefore, they are a big bunch of trouble. WELL, so are us American men. Don't even try to blame it on someone else.

[gary dunn]

it's either that or i completely agree with you. i haven't decided yet.

[gary dunn]

oh yea, and anything that is controlled by the governemt, IE aircraft, defense, they are the worst offenders of "American Professional Tradesmen". Those places call a man who has been employed for a couple of years "Class A". When they get out into a REAL tool room, becuase they got LAID OFF, they can't machine their way out of a paper bag. (atleast that's how it is in the south) can't get fired, don't have to produce, etc.

 

Sorry, the subject got me going.

[Scott Bond]

from gary dunn

quote:

---

i disagree with you Scott, mainly about US not being as smart as we need to be. Certainly, to some degree, that may be true. However, i think,

---

Hi Gary

Please read my post again, I think your preaching to the chior.

[Tony]

There is only two shops up here that are union that I know of.There problems are they cant get rid of "deadwood" because they get rid of there people by seniority.I wouldnt go near those shops.

 

Scott since schwinn is going under

I bought a rocket88 (full suspension X/C MTB)

for 1/2 the msr. It's ten miles to work.

I put "slick down the center" tires on.