5x Question

[X-L Engineering Corp]

I'm tying to program a 5x part but I don't know if my post is the problem or if I'm the problem. it rotates and tilts the wrong way. I’ve been working on the post but now I’m stating to think I might be the problem. The reason I say that is depending on how I have my wcs set determines how it looks at the part and what I do is create my own views because (Bottom, Back & Left) never worked for me so I set (Tool Plane) and (Comp Construction Plane) to my new views and (wcs) to what I created them from or set to Top. so the problem I’m having is what do I set my wcs to get this to work to me that seems to be the one I’m struggling with.

 

I have a Tsudakoma TN-160 Tilt Rotary on a NV5000 Mori Seiki the tilt is towards X- and I use the pivot point for my Origin.

 

I’m using X3

 

Any help would be great I just need to know what I’m doing wrong?

 

Ted

[Fig sign]

I never move WcS

I only change tool plane /c-plane

My WCS is always top

[X-L Engineering Corp]

even if the point that I'm pivoting from which is what the new views are created from are different from the Top view.

[Mike Gates from Barefoot CNC]

Here we teach that WCS is always set to top. You can use different planes and custom planes to tell Mastercam how the tool/spindle will be oriented for the 5-axis positioning of cuts. You can get in trouble quick if you go changing WCS incorrectly so be careful. You really may want to go to a 5-axis class at your reseller. If you can't get there for a while take your time and dry run stuff before turning it loose at full throttle.

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Ted,

 

If I understand you correctly your rotary table can rotate 360 degrees around the X-axis and tilt a certain amount around the Y-axis.

 

X0,Y0,Z0 should be set at the center of rotation and WCS should be set to top. Your origin point at the center of rotation will never change and WCS will always be top. Create new tool and construction planes to get your rotation moves. I think your set up is very similar to our Fadal TR65 tilt table only yours is much higher quality. In House Solutions made us a great post I'm sure they could do the same for you.

 

HTH

[DavidB]

WCS = Always top and centre of rotary axis.

Use TC/planes for 3+2 programming and Top for 5-axis simultanous.

 

HTH

[X-L Engineering Corp]

Thanks for all the input.

I have my Views set at a distance of 10.8874 for "X" or "Z" depending on the view that is to simulate the distance from the end of the part to the center of rotation with out having to move the part, which is the way, I was taught. Never move the model when you import it in only create new views. And my WCS Top is X0, Y0; Z0 right now my problem is getting it to post out the right way. My "B" should be at B-90 and its at B-270 and the "A" is starting at A90 not A0 I have a lot of views.

I have a post from in-house but not getting the response from my reseller that I was once got so I'm working with the generic 5x from Mastercam myself (scary).

And yes I've taken classes from my reseller, I even got a one day class with I believe his name was Mike Rossa from Mastercam when he came out to train the teachers

But that was a three-day class crammed into one day.

I’m just making sure I going in the right direction.

If I don’t get back to you guys today that’s because I’m going down to IMTS so I will look for your responses tomorrow.

 

Thanks Again

Ted

[bogusmill]

We recently started using our 5th axis and on the first few parts I was concerned that the backplot looked nothing like what the machine was doing and the code seemed 180 degrees off some of the time but the parts came out good. After a few dry runs I let it cut and everything was good so now I trust my machine and post(mostly). Do dry runs and if it seems like the path will make the part give it a try. A local programer explained to me that there are at least 2 ways to resolve any vector presented to MC and the machine so dont be too concerned that the backplot doesn't look like you thought it would.

[Jim at Gentex]

Ted,

 

We just had this same conversation in a different thread.

 

Before you start changing your post settings, make sure your created planes are oriented the way you think they are. I use 'create plane by normal' and 'by geometry' quite a bit, and I've been fooled a few times thinking my created plane was oriented correctly, only to find out it wasn't.

 

I too ALWAYS keep the WCS Top.

Think of the Top WCS as the machine orientation.

The axes orientation on the machine never change, so the Top WCS shouldn't change either. What should change is the toolplanes you create.

 

Try gview> named views> *your created view* and see if the tplane indicator (upper right of your screen) points in the correct direction, and the WCS indicator (lower left of your screen) reflects the true machine axes direction(s). Sometimes I find that one or more of my created planes is off rotation by 90 or 180.

If that is the case, use planes> rotate and make the necessary corrections.

 

Also, in your toolpath parameters, there is a 'planes' tab. Check that to see if your toolpath is oriented to the desired plane you created. If it is not, that will mess up your posted code too.

 

HTH

[X-L Engineering Corp]

When I go to my view manager and select my named view and then hit Isometric Gview I'm looking at the part the way I want it in the machine and the new origin is were I want it but that’s not what I'm getting from my post?

[Jim at Gentex]

Ted,

I'm still not sure you have a post problem.

It's possible that I just didn't explain what I mean clearly.

Can you put your file on the ftp server here so others can look at it?

 

If it's prohibited by a NDA, I understand.

But if you could post it here, I guarantee someone will be able to help you.

[X-L Engineering Corp]

It’s under X3 Files on the ftp site and it has confidentiality clause with it so if you all could respect that I appreciate it. This is a big job for us so I could use all the help I could get.

Let me know if I put it on the site the right way that’s the first time I’ve’ done that?

 

Ted

[crazy^millman]

Ted we are all in th trade brother and speaking for myself and many others others I know we all respect that. I will take a look ta it for you right now during lunch.

[crazy^millman]

Ok you have got to change all of the WCS on the Operations from A0.B0. have to be WCS TOP.

 

I will repeat myself as others have said YOU MUST USE TOP WCS FOR THIS TYPE OF WORK.

 

In case you you did not hear me they must all be TOP WCS.

 

Besides that it looks great good job.

 

Ok what we got here is a faluire to communicate. 1st thing you need to get straight in your head is what you see on the screen mean almost nothing to what you get on the machine. You say no way I say yes and here is why.

 

Point 1: each WCS is like a new 0,0,0,0,0 for machine part. In essence a new WCS is like making the X,Y,Z,A,B axis all zero for that new WCS from a posting standpoint. The post is very good at taking what you want if done right and making the code match what you want with a good dialed in post. So when you did some of your operations and started to think for Mastercam on what it needed verses letting it do the work you created you problem here. You have some operation where X is X Y is Y and so forth then you made a new WCs where you then made X is Z and Y = X and so forth in relation to the 1st view, but from a post standpoint those are really X is X and Y is Y. Huh what am I saying. What you need to think about is WCS is like taking your machine and setting it up one way then taking the machine ripping it out of the floor and putting it upside down to run the NEXT WCS. YES that is what you are telling Mastercam to do when you change the WCS for what you are attempting. Some people have good luck making WCS for each 5 axis index. I have never had any luck doing it and I want to do for me what is the simplest way.

 

Point 2: Cplanes and Tplanes have to be the same and are your indexes. Not much more I can say about that.

 

HTH

 

[ 09-12-2008, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Crazy^Millman ]

[X-L Engineering Corp]

Thanks Crazy-Millman

I did change all of my wcs to top and I still get the same problem. I haven't

 

Quote

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WCS is like taking your machine and setting it up one way then taking the machine ripping it out of the floor and putting it upside down to run the NEXT WCS.

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Not sure how to do that one. My tilt can only go a total of 138 Degrees so it tilts towards X-. Looking at the .nc file my rotary is rotated 90 Degrees the way the X-Y is posting out?

 

All the Comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated

 

Ted

[crazy^millman]

Well I looked at your file and if you changed all of your WCS then you now need to go back and pick new C-planes and T-planes for those operations and then it should post out the changes from there did you do that???

 

 

edited

 

Also in the misc integers there is bias angle this will change posting to make machines limits for indexing and make things reverse like I think you are looking for.

 

edited

 

[ 09-12-2008, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Crazy^Millman ]

[X-L Engineering Corp]

The new views is what I'm trying to work on now I quickly tried just selecting Right,Left,Bottom nothing yet I'm going to start crearting new ones and see how that goes.

I'm not that well versed in the post I can do a little moving around but nothing major.

 

Thanks for all the help!!!

 

Ted

[Jim at Gentex]

Ted,

I tried downloading your file but keep getting an error.

 

Anyway, since Ron already looked at it you're in good hands!

 

Just remember as I said to make sure the new tplanes you create are oriented correctly in Mastercam before you try to post those operations to the machine. Otherwise you will get a different result than the one you expected.

 

Always keep your WCS set to Top and you should be able to get the result you are looking for by creating and / or rotating new tplanes. Sometimes trial and error is the best teacher, so don't be afraid to experiment with rotating your new tplanes and posting the operations to see the differences in the posted code.

 

Be patient and keep at it and I'm sure you'll be OK.