Surface Vs Solid, whats the difference?

[Bill K]

I work for the University of Wisconsin as a Instrument maker.I have been using Mastercam for many years and currently running V8.1.1 We don't get a lot of 3d work, but when we do I've always been able to create simple surfaces and get the job done.

Now our Engineering department just got Solid Works.

Question, what's is the difference between a surface and a solid? The mastercam manual doesn't seem to give a very good explanation of this. I've had a few files sent down that were created in SolidWorks and when checked the statistics all it said was (trimmed surfaces) How do I tell if what I'm looking is a solid or just a surface? Does anyone know of a web site (or anything) that can help to give a better understanding of the difference's between surface vs solids?

The fact that I don't have a lot of experience with 3D doesn't help matters any, but I've never had much trouble using surface's other than the fact that it takes me a little longer because I don't use it a lot.

Thanks for any help.

[Wallace]

Hi Bill Koenig,

 

You looking surfaces.

 

Read native Solidworks parts (*.sldprt) in Mastercam.

In File - Convert - Parasolid - and change type for All (*.*) or Solidworks (*.sldprt)

 

Now you looking solid.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

The main difference between surfaces and solids is that a surface is like skin. A solid is a body.

 

When in shaded mode it's difficult to visibly tell the difference.

 

HTH

[McRae]

Surfaces - Solids

Mathematically, a solid is a set of trimmed surfaces and a parameter indicating Material Side. With the material side know, a set of datapoints can be analysed to see if they interfere or are unique in space. With surfaces, there is no property to tell if the surfaces interfere or the model that they represent actually interfere. But from the standpoint of Machining, we only drive surfaces and contours. Sure we may use a solid to generate the model geometry but we only use the surfaces of that solid for machining. If we violate the surfaces then we inturn violate the solid making it scrap...

 

If the design guys are using Pro/E, Solid Works, Solid Edge, UG, Catia, Whatever - with trimmed surfaces you can still make the parts you require. If the model is wrong, thats not your problem...

 

See Bryan Davis' posts with respect to solids, he has nailed this one before.

[ROB]

also the difference between surfaces and solids

is that in a solid body you don't have gaps

where in a surface you do, it can be .0001 or .00001

depending on the type of surface that you are working on.

[Bill K]

So if I understand this right. Solids are more of a design consideration than a machining consideration. So as far machining a solid goes, its the same as a surface. Am I right in this assumption or isn't that easy?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Well..... yes and no. You can run a contour toolpath on a solid without wireframe but you cannot contour a surface without wireframe. As far as surface machining goes you would treat them essentially the same.

 

Make sense????

[bogusmill]

Then theres that gap thing in surface. I've had more than one part gouged when a toolpath just happened to hit one of those small gaps and plunge right into the part. Thats when I wish I had run the verify program to check for this.

[David S]

quote:

---

I've had a few files sent down that were created in SolidWorks and when checked the statistics all it said was (trimmed surfaces)

---

Bill,

 

First thing first. Your MasterCam V8.1.1 dose not have solid feature. Therefore, you do not have choice when you convert your Solidworks files (Parasld). You can only get "trimmed surfaces".

 

Please tell your school to upgrade your v8.1.1 to v9 with solid feature. You would have to pick solid or trimmed surface when you use v9 and convert (read) your Solidworks files. It would not tell you "was (trimmed surfaces)" if you had a solid part there.

 

quote:

---

So as far machining a solid goes, its the same as a surface.

---

No. Now, come to second. Solid has solid toolpath and surface has surface toolpath when you using your new v9. Both toolpaths have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

I hope these will clear a little.

 

Have a nice weekend!

 

[ 08-23-2002, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: David S ]

[cadcam]

quote:

---

First thing first. Your MasterCam V8.1.1 dose not have solid feature. Therefore, you do not have choice when you convert your Solidworks files (Parasld). You can only get "trimmed surfaces".

 

Please tell your school to upgrade your v8.1.1 to v9 with solid feature. You would have to pick solid or trimmed surface when you use v9 and convert (read) your Solidworks files. It would not tell you "was (trimmed surfaces)" if you had a solid part there.

---

David s V8 does not have "Find Features " but does support *.sldprt (Solid Works )files as a solid I have been using it this way for years.

 

But just like V9 you need to have the Solids add-on or the only option you get is Surfaces.

 

The V9 find features is a new option to find holes & fillets.

[David S]

I said " Your MasterCam V8.1.1 dose not have solid feature.". I did not believe the University of Wisconsin had bought "the Solids add-on for" him. I assume that was the reason why he confused solid=surface and

quote:

---

Solids are more of a design consideration than a machining consideration. So as far machining a solid goes, its the same as a surface.

---

He thought solid is only for design and, bring solid into Mastercam, it becomes surface for "machine consideration".

 

Am I right, Bill?

 

[ 08-24-2002, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: David S ]

[cadcam]

David S , I beleive you are right and I miss read the post and did not see it that way.

Sorry.

 

Thoght you were saying some thing diffrent as you can tell.

[David S]

Jay,

 

You are a gentleman!

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I was going to write the same post you were Jay but I looked at his post again and figured out what he meant. He, he, he, .... better you than me. I've made my allotment of DOH!'s this week. I don't have any more to spare.....

[David S]

Friday evening, I was trying:

 

1. Help Bill solving his problem.

 

2. Help CNC Software selling MasterCam V9 (with solid).

 

3. Take children to the 7:00pm Movie(we were late).

 

1+2+3=a cocktail post.

 

Sorry for the misleading.

 

[ 08-25-2002, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: David S ]

[Bill K]

Thanks to all that replied. We are going to be getting V9 at some point in the future. When in the surface dialog box there is (Surf/solid) why are they including the (Solid) along with the (Surf) here if Solids isn't supported? V8 also gives me the ability to create solids (I think) There are solids in the geometry samples folder as well. So I'm a bit confused about Mastercam V8 and solids. I will be going to IMTS and plan on stopping by the Mastercam booth.

In the surface dialog box I'm also prompted for a STL file. What does this file do? I assume that it has something to do with solids.

[P_Scott]

Bill,

 

In Mastercam, you can only create or modify solids if you have licensed the Solids module. You can File-Get a solid part that was already created, without the Solids module. You would not be able to change anything about the solid part however (ie. change Fillet size), unless you had licensed Solids.

An STL file is an abbreviation for STereoLithography files. These files are a type of geometry comprised of triangles or polygons that are similar to surfaces. Mastercam can apply toolpaths to STL geometry without even reading in the geometry first. The (STL) prompt allows you to choose an STL file to use for drive geometry instead of surfaces or solids.

The (Surf/Solid) prompt is simply a toggle for you to select Single surfaces/solids, All surfaces/solids, or No surfaces/solids as your toolpath drive geometry. If there is solid geometry present, you will have another prompt that gives you a choice for either surfaces or solids. Sorry for the long post. I hope this clears up the confusion.

[Rekd™]

One other thing to consider in the differences.. Try to modify a surface file; Change a fillet, change a chamfer, change the length of a feature. It can be very time consuming with Surfaces. Solids make it much faster and easer.

 

-Rekd

[McRae]

Rekd-

 

Read the origional post and see that the user has a file given to him in solid format and that he does not have solids. Changing design features is not within the scope of work here. Those are design functions and that is where that responsibility should stay.

[Bill K]

I'm not sure, but back when we up graded to v8 we talked about getting the solid add on. After checking with our computer administrator he can't seem to find any documentation. So I'm not sure if we have it or not. If we do in fact have this add on, where in Mastercam could I find out if we have it installed. Its been quite a while since we last up graded, and as I said before we don't do very much 3D, so I'm not surpised that no one remembers.

BYW. We do have a manual called Version 8 Solids Tutorial. would this manual be part of the solids add on?

[David S]

Bill,

 

Turn on your MasterCam V8.1.1. At Main Menu, click at Solid. you will get a Warning massage:"Solids option not available. Contact your dealer." then, you do not have this add-on.

 

Or, when you import Solidworks file, look at if the solid option is gray in color. The gray means you do not have solids option.

 

[ 08-28-2002, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: David S ]

[McRae]

Bill,

 

Tutorial book is shipped with solids add on. You likely have it.

[Bill K]

After clicking on solids, we do have it.

I thank all of you that responded to my question. The solids vs surfaces is much clearer to me now.

Now, if only we had more 3D work come through the shop, I wouldn't get so rusty.

 

BTW. The solid works files that I have worked with have (.SLDPRT) extension. I wasn't aware they could be converted in Mastercam directly. We convert them first to (iges) in solid works and then bring them in to Mastercam.

When I try to convert .sldprt files with the parasld converter in Mastercam I get a error message. I think I now have a new question.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

hey bill we use solisworks here and to convert sldprt files all you do is under file convert , parasolid, at the bottom of prompt box-filetypes have it opened up to solidworks(sldprt)and it will convert directly ??also under fileconvert, parasolid,atbottom under version have it set to 13.2parasolid vertion number hope this helps

[Roger Peterson]

There is a patch on mastercams website to allow you to read in solidworks 2001 plus. The patch is called rdpsv13mcv8.zip or something like that anyway.

 

good luck