will i ever get my code to look like this without editing?

[Jack Mitchell]

Cherokeechief79,

 

I can appreciate the differences and how this debate sort of figured itself out; you defiantly stirred the pot with this thread and yet all is not lost.

 

Smartcam DOS ver7 was a nightmare to overcome for all of us - we learned to adapt and also learned how to roll with the punches. So we get punched up a little along the way - we are still professionals and we still have so very much to learn from all this.

 

I am very happy that you have joined the forum and I am sure you will have many good experiences in the future; I actually visited the Smartcam user forum just the other day as per John Coulson’s referral - I would also encourage these other members to join in.

 

I know that the transition is really hard - please tough this out, the Mastercam forum is filled with rock solid experience and dedication; sometimes the testosterone levels get a little healthy – but what the heck.

 

Regards, Jack

[Brendan P]

I havn't been back to this thread for a few days but,

WOW...............

I aint saying nothing!!!!!

[Charles Davis]

Since Smartcam is no longer in business, I won't feel so bad trashing it. Having worked as an AE for Smartcam in the late 80's, having wrote the Smartcam Post Processor manaul, and using Mastercam now for over 9 years, I feel qualified to comment on this.

 

There is no way Smartcam (a.k.a Stupidcam) can compare to Mastercam in any appreciable way.

 

Mastercam posts are more complex -which is necessary to make them much more pliable. There are very, very few cases where I can't do something with the Mastercam post. That MP language is beautiful. Not easy. Not simple. But very, very, powerful.

 

I think Dave Thompson is spot on: what you want is totally achievable. However, it's going to require a little time and a lot of expertise. So, you really have to break down and pay someone for their time, effort and skill.

 

You are a skilled machinist, and you deserve to be paid a fair wage for your years of education and experience. Same with the guy working on your post.

 

The good news is that the charge for the post change will pay for itself very quickly by eliminating manually editing the code.

 

I make a lot of post changes for free for my customers. This one is beyond the scope of what a reasonable person would expect to get for free.

 

I'd say hire a good post person to make the edits, pay the bill, and get on with life. You have parts to make.

 

I can promise you this, the more you use Mastercam, the more you will respect it's power, flexibility and integrity. This stuff just won't let you down. Welcome aboard.

[cherokeechief79]

thanks for all of the quality replies.like i said im still learning here and need your help.if i seem out of line let me know.im just trying to figure things out.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

hey chief where in new jersey are you from ....

[DrewG]

"Some customers just are not worth having, and you're one of them. Why don't you at least tell us what state you're from? Afraid of the backlash?"

 

Not everyone is as knowledgable about Mastercam as you, James. Cherokee is trying to convert from the S/C he is use to using. When I was purchasing M/C for my business the salesman said "getting a post like the one above was no problem. If we have to make a custom post it would be $250.00."

No big deal.

When we were in class and asked their instructor about a post like above, he said "he never saw a post like that, and said it would take alot of time and be real difficult".

We didn't realize it was such a strange post, and wanted another opionion, that's all, nothing more. Lastly, we're from New Jersey, 1775 Hwy.34, in Wall (732)556-1150 Precision CNC, Inc. What's that got to do with anything?????

[Brendan P]

Cherokeechief79/DrewG,

The guys here are very helpful and love to share

their knowledge.

It is very difficult and takes a lot of time to

switch over cam systems.

I too had to do it,so I know how it can be frustrating.

Also these guys have also used other cam systems,

and like myself,are very "partial" to using mastercam.

We are here cause we love mastercam (at least I do).

So comparing mcam to others on this forum seems to not go over too good.

 

Sure it has some faults,but it is continually becoming a better and better system.

Everyone and his brother would love to know all

about "custom post writing".

This in my opinion,is another whole ballgame,and

there are few who can make a post do anything

they want.

As some of the other members pointed out,for what

you want it to do,you may just have to pay someone.(big deal)

A lot of the answers given here are mostly simple fixes.In your case,I wouldn't exactly call yours a simple fix.

You really need to sit down with someone and go

through the whole post so you can have it do exactly what you want it to do.

And don't let him leave till you are happy with it!

Please disregard any negative posts that came to

be on this thread.

These guys are good guys!Believe me.

As I stated,some are very partial to mastercam.

James' is a very helpful guy.

I don't think calling each other names makes it

any better.

 

Hopefully it can all be forgotten

[Jack Mitchell]

Cherokeechief79/DrewG,

 

Well said Bucket!

 

Thought for the moment says that when James states OUT! I believe him to be angry - just a note of caution to the newer members

I probably had more OUTS! than most others on this forum.

 

All is said, all is well.

 

Let's suck it up and crank up the volumn on a more challenging issue.

 

Yo Bucket! do you realize that there has been 500 new members since you joined? - It is actually quite astounding when you think of it.

 

Coming soon will also be another episode for the starfleet series - this war thing has been such an annoyance and distraction. (hint - I need to know the breed of those two dogs from one of our regular friends for an up and coming storyline). (Aussie boys - you want foam, you want foam? It's coming!!!)

 

Regards, Jack

 

[ 03-15-2003, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: Jack Mitchell ]

[Brendan P]

Yes Jack....

It is amazing how fast they join!

I love this forum.

Hey Jack,I was watching The Shining today.

Gotta love that movie!

Hope your wife is doing good.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

quote:

---

we're from New Jersey, 1775 Hwy.34, in Wall (732)556-1150 Precision CNC, Inc. What's that got to do with anything?????

---

im just asking because im from south jersey and theres not many from the garden state thats all most are from cali and canada stick with it and suck it up everyone is very helpful and quite knowledgable especally james aka...beanie boy ... again try that mpsub rep post from this site its agreat place to start for what your looking for

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

OK, after some thought, and a few hours to assess the "situation", I believe I was too harsh, too critical, and too personal to our new members and for that I apologize.

 

So with that said, for the benefit of our new members and or members migrating from other systems you'll most likely get the answers you're looking for when posing a question like "I'm trying to do (insert description), what is the best way to do this?".

 

If you're looking for input on post work, you would be better served by doing a bit of research first so that you can ask intelligent and answerable questions. I would imagine you're asking yourself "How can I ask an intelligent question when I've only been using the software for a few weeks?" or something like that. That is certainly a reasonable question. When looking at post options that are available, there is a section in the post at the very top that describes the capabilities of the post. Read it, read it again, and read it a few more times just for good measure. This sectino will normally give you a good indication of what the post is capable of before you modify it. The posts available here (at no extra charge I might add - Thank You VERY much Dave, you've done us a great service with them), MPMaster, and MPSubrep are generally phenominal places to start. Dave's added TONS of goodies in there and re-arranged some things and so now, when I do post work, I usually start off with MPMaster and modify it. Word of caution, I would strongly suggest as a beginner with Mastercam, focusing more on learning how the software functions rather than having to learn how to write posts AND having to learn how to use the software. After you've got some time under you're belt, then get into it if you wish. I just think you'd be better served approaching it this way because of the fundamental differences between software packages these days. Going from SC to MC is tannamount to going from Gibbs to SC. Very different in their approaches to things. I realize that you are probably under the gun to get programs out to the machine so you should really seriously consider contracing out your post work for now. You may spend $250 or so (I think this is the number I saw tossed around) but it would SERIOUSLY be worth the investment so that you can get up and running as soon as possible.

 

HTH and once again I apologize for my brash and rude behaviour.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...beanie boy...

---

 

I like that. That's funny. One of my old bosses used to call me that.

[Brendan P]

Hats off to you James, I knew it would all end up

good.

$250.00 is nothing to spend on a post that will last forever.

Hell,I still do some editing before my program

reaches the shop floor.

See....I told you there are good guys here.

James, the other day at lunch time I was on the

forum and I was reading one of your posts.

One of the guys was in my office and saw your

avatar and said "thats not a real person"!

I said yes it is...... it is James!

[DrewG]

Machinemasterg--I was replying to James Mayette who asked what state he(cherokee) was from.

 

James--Believe me when I tell you, nobody wants to learn M/C more than Cherokee. He was the one pushing for this new cam system over Gibb's and everything else out there. He realizes the need to move forward and learn a new Cam system.

I believe he thought learning M/C after working with S/C for almost 10 years was going to be easier than it is. That's all.

I myself am having a very difficult time learning M/C. I expressed(as well as every single member in class) my belief that the training we went through for M/C would've been much better if it had been a 5-day course vs. the 3-day. Everything was so rushed that it never gave anyone a chance to work on any type of exercises in class. The second you were done with one aspect, it was on to the next. Truely too much information in too short a time. I forgot half the stuff we went over in class, and am having a very difficult time of it. I believe it would've been very beneficial to have the students work on some exercise's on their own in class, and have the teacher walking around offering assistence where needed. I feel sorry for any person who's boss sends them through this 3 day class, and than expect's them to come back and start producing parts right away.

I suppose it comes down to the fact that business owners do not want to lose an associate for a full week, and M/C has to compete with other Cam products out there that advertise less training. I would love to have a study conducted and see the difference between students who had 3 days vs 5 days of initial training. Look at the students 2 weeks later and I bet you would see the students with the extra 2 days training were further ahead, thus making parts faster, thus making up for the 2 additional missed days of work.

[Brendan P]

DrewG,

I have taken the 2 day lathe,3day mill,2day

intermediate mill classes from our local reseller.

On the 3rd day of mill,my freaking head was spinning.I couldn't have taken another day.

The reseller has a set "routine" and they try

to cover as much as posible.

What helped me is that I played with the system

for 3 months while still in transition with our

other cam system.

Then I went to the classes.This gave me a chance

to get familiar with the software.

It is very frustrating to know what you want to do, but don't know how to do it.

Just stay with it!It will come.

I had every excuse in the book in the beginning

when I couldn't do something!(software sucks,ect.)

But when it finially sunk in......

Now it becomes fun!

Heck I can't even believe I get paid to program

all day long!

I still and will never be able to learn all that

mastercam has to offer.

 

You may not want to spend the $$ but these CD's

I purchased from Mike Mattera are really good.

 

http://mastercam.netfirms.com/

[iowajim62]

Hi all,

I'll reply now after watching this thread for awhile, the 5 days vs. 3 days is absolutely true in my opinion. After 3 days we went to Solids and after that whatever we wanted the 5th day. It was totally complete training at our facility with the machines 200 ft. away to go try stuff. I fully recomend(sp?) the CNC Software Training, it's not cheap for them to come to your company and conduct training but the benefits outweigh the cost. The ROI is just as Drew said in his post since you come away ready to really program whatever your company manufactures. With that said, everyone have a good weekend.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Drew,

 

The reseller here in SoCal does it best IMHO. They do 1 day a week for 5 weeks (if you have a Level 3 System and get the training). Level 1 Training is 3 Days (1 day a week for 3 weeks). This gives the user the ability to digest the tremendous amount of information in a relatively short amount of time. Going for a week straight...... it's tough, no doubt about it. I consider myself to be fairly sharp and I have a tough time with "Crash Course" training. Mind you, the reseller's main intent is to get the user up and running as quickly as humanly possible which unfortunately means you get a "Crash course".

 

May I suggest that for additional training you seek out a local community college/trade school. By doing this, you'll not only maximize the knowledge your reseller's trainer gave you but you'll be in a slower paced environment and you'll have the ability to ask questions in greater detail. Not that you werenot able to ask questions, but it's just different in school.

 

When I first got started in CAD/CAM it was through my local Community College. It was there where I learned the basics. I certainly would not be where I am today had I not attended there. Also see if your reseller will kick you down with a free copy of Mastercam Demo to take home and install and play with at your leisure without the pressure of getting parts out because like anything else, the more time you spend with it, the more familiar you'll get with it. When I was first learning, I would spend about 20 hours at home during the week and weekend playing with it. I was sneaking prints out of the shops I was working in (shhhhhhh, don't tell anyone , let's just keep this between you and I ) and programming them at home to learn. When I eventually got the chance to begin programming parts at work I was ready. Your circumstance is a bit more dire. You're expected to perform NOW!

 

So, keep your book mark here, and your reseller's phone number handy.

[DrewG]

James--I wish they tought the training here like the way you described. It's funny, I actually asked the instructor "instead of three straight days of training, why not have one day on, one day off. For example, Have training on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, which would enable the student to actually work on what was just taught and try and get it down somewhat rather than flooding you with another two straight days of class without ever having a chance to work on the first days training. The problem with this is that some students are coming in from out of town and staying in hotel's, so it would only be beneficial to those who were driving home and could actually work on it on those days in between.

I guess why it bothers me so much is that I'm a perfectionist and like to try and manufacture parts the most efficient way possble. I know I will learn this Cam system because I won't give up, but I worry I won't be using it to the fullest, or program in the most efficient manner. I have an advantage in that I own the business, and do not have to program as I have associate's that do a great job. However, I want to learn M/C because as the owner, I realize it will help my business and my understanding of what my programmers go thru when asked to design/produce a part. As I stated above and in my M/C class, I feel sorry for anyone who goes through these three day class's and than has to go back to work and be expected to produce parts immediately. I know I couldn't.

Luckily, my M/C dealer has advised me that they allow any customer who has purchased the software and training from them to take the training class's as many times as you like or need, for no additional charge, other than the original training cost's. So what I will probably do is go back and take the training a second time after I have a few month's under my belt. I believe that will help me alot. I'm having the biggest problems with drawing parts. I thought it would be alot easier. Unfortuanatly, everything we make, we have to design. We never work off a print. Thanks!!!!

[Brendan P]

quote:

---

I'm having the biggest problems with drawing parts.

---

DrewG,

Are you talking about drawing in 2D,3D,surfaces,or solids?

I will assume that it is 2D.

Just be patient and keep up on it. It will come.

The right side of your brain is trying to draw in mastercam,and the left side keeps thinking S/C.

 

I used to get soo frustrated trying to draw at first that I would draw it in my other cam system,then save it as a dxf and bring into mastercam.

All of a sudden,one day it will all make sense!

Believe me.

I think the guys who are razzing you and cherokee

just happen to forget that they went through the

same crap as you two are going through.

I learn something new here almost every day.

Just eat, breathe, and sleep mastercam!

[DrewG]

Thanks for the kind words of support, Buckethead. Unfortunately, I have NO CAM experience. It was Cherokee who has been working with the S/C stuff before M/C. I do have machining experience, but no formal programming experience other than directly on the control.

I was talking about the 2D training stuff, not even the 3D. I can only imangine what it will be like when I go for the 3D training. I purchased two seats of Mill Level 3, Solid's, Lathe, and all the training for them, so I've just started the training. I took it about 10 days ago, so I realize I haven't given it much time. I plan on trying to put aside a minimum of 30-60 minutes a day to work on it, and hope I'll be ready for the 3D stuff with-in a few month's. On top of all this training, we have 1 week of "cell controller" training to attend out at Makino for a new linear pallet system. I will let you know how the next few month's go for me with this M/C training. Do you know of any other's who have posted about their experience's learning M/C without any other CAM training? Anyone else try those M/C training CD's that another member mentioned? I'd be interested in hearing about that. Thanks!!!

[cadcam]

DrewG I teach to poeple every week that have had NO cad or Cam before they started coming to my classes.

I find that they comup with some great thoughts.

then the other half have used another system and say all the time this how I do it (input cad-cam name here)and I just show them how it works here.

I teach just over 60 poeple a week in my classes so you have an Idea of how often I see this.

[Brendan P]

DrewG,

It was me who mentioned about the mike mattera

CD's.

I purchased them and think they are fantastic!

The good thing about them is that you can go

over and over till you get it.

And he is pleasant to listen to.

The training at the re-seller is good,but a real lot to swallow all at once!

In my opinion,I think it is actually better that

you have not "learned" any other cad/cam system.

This way, you will learn a great system right

from the start!

You will not be saying: "But I could do it this way or that way with the other brand".

You have invested a good amount of $$ for your

system,now all you have to do is invest a good amount of time to master it!

Be patient, you will soon fall in love with it!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

James--I wish they tought the training here like the way you described. It's funny, I actually asked the instructor "instead of three straight days of training, why not have one day on, one day off. For example, Have training on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, which would enable the student to actually work on what was just taught and try and get it down somewhat rather than flooding you with another two straight days of class without ever having a chance to work on the first days training.

---

The other reason that some reseller's don't do it that way is because they are essentially "one man shows". The reseller in SoCal has been #1 in sales a number of times in the last 10 years. They have like 10 or 11 on staff. There's probably only 4-5 reselers likt it in the world, then again, there's over 10,000 shops here in SoCal that manufacture something. This gives them a tremendous amount of flexibility that other resellers can only dream of. Still many resellers have HUGE territories encompasing multiple states and this provides for logistical challenges to say the least. I mean if your reseller has multiple states, he basically has to rent space wherever he goes to provide training for his customers. But I still no matter what believe it's better to spread things out a bit. Between classes you get to try out what you learned and perhaps find some "little nuggets" along the way.

[DrewG]

Bucket--I believe I'm going to try those CD's. Thanks!!!

James--Our dealer is Prism in Pennsylvania, and they are quite large. They have a staff of over twenty, including sales, teachers, tech., and administrative. Besides M/C, they sell Solidworks, and several DNC software. They are pretty large, however they do have people coming from out of state, so I suppose they can't spread the training out too long. When I asked them about extending it, the teacher stated he wanted a 5-Day class, however M/C said no because too many shops would complain about losing their help for so long. Oh well. Thanks!!!

[Brendan P]

Drew,

IMO....You won't be dissappointed.

They helped me out a lot.

There are some tricks that he will show you

that you would probably never found out on your

own.

I believe I dropped a link to his site maybe

earlier on this thread.

Let me know how you make out.

I'm pretty sure he will give you a deal if you

buy (2) of them instead of 1.

He did for me.

You can also find his CD's on EBAY.

You will learn how to use all the CAD tools

in mastercam.