O/T but i'm curious

[McRae]

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I heard that they removed the American Flags from the tanks before they entered Iraq.

 

The reason; "We are here to liberate, not to conquer."

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If this is true, this is good. We don't need a 51st State. We need to help rebuild their infrastructure, help them create a Constitution, allow them to sell their goods on the open market and allow the Iraqui(sp?) people publicly execute xxxx and his henchmen.

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I thought that during the Afghan conflict, the Pentagon and the White House referred to the captives as Illegal Combatants and not Prisoners of War - because they were not wearing the colours of any recognized nation. If this Colour Removal is fact, then I await the resposne and explaination from our respected members...

 

Oh one other thing, watching the coverage on the BBC rather than CNN will open up a few of the broader issues of the war. Rather than watching the 7th Cav streak across the sand and emptyness of the desert - Think about the current tender process put up by the Pentagon and the USAID organization that has a $600M contract for the rebuilding of Iraq after the war (don't forget the buy American Caluses that are in ANY American Government Contract) - and by the way - once you are finished fixing it, you own it - not the Iraqi's. Explain how this is liberation? For the American's to "Liberate" and then claim rebuilding and ownership rights just doesn't sound right to me - I hope that I am wrong here and have misinterpreted what is actually fact.

 

[ 03-21-2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Andrew McRae ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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For the American's to "Liberate" and then claim rebuilding and ownership rights just doesn't sound right to me - I hope that I am wrong here and have misinterpreted what is actually fact.

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Andrew, you raise a valid question. I have an answer. Because this is still a Military action, certain procedures need to take place concerning national security. The companies in question are government contractors and have the appropriate security clearances to do this thype of business for the government. I've heard that a large portion of the work will be sub-sontracted out for logistical, political and cultural reasons.

[CAM-mando]

Ive been following this thread and have resisted posting until now.

 

I understand that some are suspicious of our (USA) motives for War, I understand that those from other nations may view us as political bullies, I understand that the nothing is gaurenteed in War, or regime change. I understand that our democratic republic here in the USA is flawed at times. Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government ... except all the other forms".

 

The USA stated this campaign was against the Sadam Regime and not the Iraqui People. Although the USA stated the war would be one of "Shock & Awe" inteligence and high technology weapons systems were used to perform a surgical strike of unprecidented accuracy. Meanwhile in the outskirts of Iraq surrendering Iraqi soldiers were given medical attention and drinking water by American Soldiers. This scene made me proud to be american. Strength and compassion are not mutually exclusive qualities. I support this decision and although I was ambivolent regarding George W. Busch, I now admire and respect him for doing what must be done given the imnformation we have in spite of world (and some domestic) opinion.

 

So as the terrorist who "have no ties to Iraq" poke their heads up here in the states, as the leadership in Iraq make threats to our Wives and Mothers, as Iraq fires Missles "they dont have", as demonstrators protest those wo protect their very right to protest, as governments hide their economic interesrs behind facades of "give peace a chance and let the inspections work", as real american men and women risk their lives for you and me and yes the people of Iraq, I say God Bless America, its supporters, and all good and decent people. God willing the *Threat* of "Shock and Awe" will be all that is really required.

 

May all people enjoy the freedoms that we here in the USA and other free countries have enjoyed. And may a swift path to peace lie ahead for all.

[Toolfab]

The protesters keep saying let the inspectors do there work, but what they dont understand is that there ARE inspectors there working.

 

 

There are in fact over 200,000 inspectors. They just happen to be wearin desert camoflage and caring BIG guns.

 

 

God bless us ALL.

[Marty A]

i'm listening to the radio while there bombing the heck out of irac right now as i write. i can't add anymore to this post because what i think has already been said. god bless our troops and god bless america.......love it or get the hell out.......motty

[Rekd™]

To review;

 

For more than 25 years Saddam Hussein has sought to acquire chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, and has, in several documented cases, succeeded. He gassed 60,000 of his own people in 1986 in Halabja. He has launched two catastrophic wars, sacrificing nearly a million Iraqis and killing or wounding more than a million Iranians. He has flouted 16 United Nations resolutions over 12 years that have warned him to disarm or else, including one, four months ago, giving him a "final opportunity" to do so "fully and immediately" or face "serious consequences." But in its campaign against Iraq, America is virtually alone. Never will it have waged a war in such isolation. Never have so many of its allies been so firmly opposed to its policies. Never has it provoked so much public opposition, resentment and mistrust. And all this before the first shot had been fired.

 

Changing times;

 

Watching the tumult around the world, it's evident that what is happening goes well beyond this particular crisis. Many people, both abroad and in America, fear that we are at some kind of turning point, where well-established mainstays of the global order-the Western Alliance, European unity, the United Nations-seem to be cracking under stress. These strains go well beyond the matter of Iraq, which is not vital enough to wreak such damage. In fact, the debate is not about Saddam anymore. It is about America and its role in the new world.

 

A giant awakens;

 

September 11 was not only the first attack on the American mainland in 150 years, but it was also sudden and unexpected. Three thousand civilians were brutally killed without any warning. Yet after 9-11, the rest of the world saw something quite different. They saw a country that was hit by terrorism, as some of them had been, but that was able to respond on a scale that was almost unimaginable. Suddenly terrorism was the world's chief priority, and every country had to reorient its foreign policy accordingly. For examlpe, Pakistan had actively supported the Taliban for years; within months it became that regime's sworn enemy.

 

Gearing up;

 

The United States will spend as much next year on defense as the rest of the world put together (yes, all 191 countries). Washington announced that it would increase its defense budget by almost $50 billion, a sum greater than the total annual defense budget of Britain or Germany. A few months after September 11 America toppled a regime 6,000 miles away-almost entirely from the air-in Afghanistan, a country where both the British and Soviet empires were bogged down at the peak of their power. It is now clear that the current era can really have only one name, the unipolar world-an age with only one global power. America's position today is unprecedented.

 

American dominance is not simply military. The U.S. economy is as large as the next three-Japan, Germany and Britain-put together! With 5 percent of the world's population, this one country accounts for 43 percent of the world's economic production, 40 percent of its high-technology production and 50 percent of its research and development.

 

To conclude;

 

In principle, American power is not simply good for America; it is good for the world. Most of the problems the world faces today-from terrorism to AIDS to nuclear proliferation-will be solved not with less U.S. engagement but with more. The lesson of the 1990s-of Bosnia, Kosovo, East Timor, Rwanda-is surely that American action, with all its flaws, is better than inaction. Other countries are simply not ready or able, at this point, to take on the challenges and burdens of leadership.

 

 

'Rekd teh Informer

[Marty A]

rekd i salute you.......motty

[Trevor Bailey]

For those casting stones at the USA for trying to improve another countries well being, why not step back and say to yourself, "Instead of me bitching about the war and down-playing the US for at least trying to make a difference for peace, maybe I should be backing them. By doing this, it would be constructive to us all, world wide."

 

Why not try that, all you FREAKS out there that just don't get it!!!!!!!!!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Freaks is right. Ya know, I'll bet all those "Anti-War" protesters out there are the very same ones moaning and bitching about budget cuts in schools etc... Well you know what? Those same morons protesting are costing us millions every single day the law enforcement has to be out there to babysit those fools.

[Chris Rizzo]

Contrary to what most of you think my political orientation is, I must clarify that I base my viewpoints from factual and objective analysis of what politicians/governments say and what they do. Believe it or not I have no anti-American sentiment, and

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entirely

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support the men and women of the armed forces. I whole-heartedly commend the manner in which the "regime change" is being carried out. The tactical precision, respect for the citizens, and attitude that we are their to help and not annex. I support the continuity in what was planned and what is being executed.

The issues that I was raising pre-engagement were directed at questioning the words, motives, and ajendas of our polital leaders. Blowing through the smoke screens which have historically been put up by all political leaders. Most importantly- holding politicians accountable for what they say and what they do, and factually what the truth is, not just what is said my the press, media, and government officials. Holding politicians to their words and questioning the presentation of their case is far more democratic than what I've seen from a variety of people- pushing foward with so much emotional zeal, furvor and fist-waving, that squasing honest opposition is considered "freedom". Very ironic.

 

Yeah yeah yeah, I can here you all now: " are you with us or are you against us" What I was/am saying is that freedom is all about raising the questions. If someone truly represents freedom, than they can be comfortable with their viewpoints being questioned.

 

As for the "protestors",I could'nt agree more. Some of them are so ridiculious and ill-informed that their causes become totally meaningless. They represent just as much ignorance as the flag wavers who blindly follow.

 

Now that we are underway, the support and focus on the declared mission is crucial. The time to question weather or not to take action is past. Action is being taken. Focus on the task, complete it, and hope for the outcome that was prophecized.

[Trevor Bailey]

Well put CMR.

[Brendan P]

Rekd,

Bravo Bravo....

I could not have said it any better!

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Ya know, I'll bet all those "Anti-War" protesters out there are the very same ones moaning and bitching about budget cuts in schools etc...

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James,

Of course they are,these numbskulls have nothing better to do.

Half of them are probably collecting government

supplement.(they don't seem to work).

The other half are college "KIDS" who are scared

that they might somehow get drafted someday!

 

Come on Jack,

You gotta say something.....(lets hear it)

[Rekd™]

cmr,

 

It's nice to see you pulled your head out of the sand and took a look around at the obvious.

 

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Contrary to what most of you think my political orientation is

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What most of us think your political orientation is a direct dirivative of your posts on this topic. Nothing else.

 

Go back and read some of what you wrote, then ask yourself how you would percieve someone who wrote what you wrote. Here's just a few of my favorites..

 

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Meanwhile we are chasing our tails around Iraq in a seach of "weapons of mass destruction", and have yet to produce ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER...unfounded speculations and inconclusive spy photos do not count as proof!!!

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Just because the government chooses not to disclose some information, does not mean the information does not exist.

 

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Why the hell are we spending 500 million dollars a day in the middle east (that's 1 billion every two days), while 20 men can strut into our country with a couple thousand bucks, and cause more damage to our nation than we could ever fathom

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You answered your own question here, those 20 men are EXACTALLY the reason we're spending billions over there...

 

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If Bush was truly concerned about the saftey of America, he would start by protecting our own soil, instead of taking other's.

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Again, we're there to liberate, not conquer.

 

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Unfortunatly this one is not going to end like all the Hollywood movies, where we American's with the biggest guns all live happily ever after....our cinematic fantasy is going to come crashing down, I'm afraid.

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Wanna bet?

 

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Who flew three of our airplanes into three of our national landmarks? Iraqis? NO. We cannot find anything to link Iraq to those terrorists...

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Yes, we can. We did many years ago. Even if not this particular incident, there is plenty of proof, as well as admissions from Iraq.

 

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This is not like containing Germany during WWII, terror is a mindset and determination that force will only make stronger. We are setting ourselves up for a saga bigger than we can imagine....

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You're absolutely right! It's not loke Germany! But I'll tell you this.. Letting countries get away with supporting/financing/harboring terrorists will make them stronger. Remove those that support/finance/harbor terrorists will eventually send a signal to people about f*&^ing with US.

 

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Your attitudes and ethnocentrism do more harm to our freedoms than my raising valid questions certainly does.

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Think about this one yourself, I shouldn't need to say anything...

 

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As for you last two, your on your way to starting your own dictatorship....

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Think about this one, too.

 

'Rekd Beating teh Dead Horse

 

[ 03-21-2003, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I looked into going into the Air Force reserve a couple of years back because I enjoy aircraft so much..... I was too old. It's a shame they have age requirements ya know.

[bhyde]

So I have read some very interesting comments about removal of Saddam. I guess I am just going to throw my 2 cents in for what they are now worth considering the current economy. I do agree with the decision of getting a cruel dictator out of power. But let us not forget that the US doesnt stand alone in this task. All too often allies that have similiar beliefs are left out. But with that said, there are some countries, Im not going to mention any names but will give initials FRANCE, who will be there to reap the benefits of the coalitions bloodshed and monetary input in the long run.

Now to any that feel the need to protest. I feel that is their given right to protest. But in all reality, public protests really do undermind what we are trying to accomplish. Fighting for those that cannot fight for themselves is a very honorable thing. If they really feel the need to protest, keep it out of the public eye. The great men and women that fight for our very freedom put their lives on the line to protect that very right in which they are abusing. Seems to me there can be other things to do that are far more productive to this nation and others. Wasted energy and effort in my eyes. It will stop nothing that is currently going on, but it will serve as an insult to out nations military personel.

Live a day under a cruel and ruthless dictator. Live without any of your current freedoms that you take for granted. Live knowing that every effort that you accomplish throughout your life will just serve to build your illustrious leader lavish monuments and shrines to his greatness. Also live all this knowing that at a whim, he can and or will test his latest weapon of mass destruction on YOU! I think that alot of Americans take for granted what they have. By this I mean the freedoms to do ( with some, but very few restrictions ) as you wish, when you wish. Take a look around and enjoy your freedom that was paid for in blood. I think that this payment will always be a re-occuring one and a necessary evil. I really feel sorry for the american protesters knowing that they more than likely had family that made part of the down payment of blood. I am sure they are a disgrace to said relatives.

Anyway, Sorry about the particularly long post. Just couldnt watch anymore without tossing in my opinion.

 

To all that have family in Iraq, I thank you for the contribution for which I cherish every day!

 

[Chris Rizzo]

One more time folks, who flew the planes into the WTC, Pentagon, and were headed for the white house? Not Iraq.

Saddam does indeed need to be dealt with.

However our own vulnerabilites should be our primary concern. We have come nowhere close to dealing with them.. The homeland security measures are a joke. Iraq is a distraction from down-home, homeland security. Our hatches are not secure and we are headed out into the tempest...

I support the Iraq actions, but I argue that we are dealing with lower threats to homeland security first, while way too open and vulnerable to attack from proven attackers. Why did we not send 300,000 troops through the desert after Bin Laden, an attacker who has struck us?

[godzillia_dude]

Since my previous post, two questions have come to mind. 1) Where are all of these protesters comming up with the money for these rallys (and being able to take time from work to be incarcerated) that are costing us taxpayers a fortune (not to mention taking money from various NEEDED government services ) and possibly more importantly 2)have any of these people who are saying that we are "evil" or "warmongers" or are acting "illeaglly", seen any of the pictures from Fox News (www.foxnews.com)? Our troops are "feeding Iraqi soldiers and civilians alike, giving them water, medicine . You know, the stuff that their leaders wouldn't get for them. It really doesn't seem like a war from a compasionate standpoint. I realize that bombs are dropping. I also realize that these people were not only abandoned by their government; they were disgarded by the UN .

[Brendan P]

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Where are all of these protesters comming up with the money for these rallys (and being able to take time from work to be incarcerated)

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I have already covered this one....

They are looser,moron,welfare recipients who dont

work!

 

I saw Iraqi residents shaking hands,kissing,

hugging our soldiers on the news tonight.

They were also "ripping down" the stupid MURALS

of Saddam!

Now did any of the DUMB protesters catch this,or were they too busy getting arrested for throwing

rocks at the cops?

Filming these idiots in the streets protesting

IMO is bad. If the Iraqi people see it beforehand

it may make them think that we want to kill civilians or give the wrong impression of why we are going in.

 

Rekd,

Give up on cmr...

He just don't get it!

[Scott Bond]

Hi CMR

My nephew Jason Bond is over there right now ,,, He is truly representing freedom---yours mine--- his.

This letter is to me, from my brother Kim Bond, I was not able to post(I need help doing this) the pictures of the little guy in his Tiger cub uniform,,,then cubscout,,then Eagle Scout---and there is one more picture in his Marine uniform.

 

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Dear Uncle Scott

 

We just received a letter from JB and have his current mailing address in Kuwait. We hope that you could make some time to include him in your prayers and send him a letter of support. We wouldn't want our boys to get the wrong impression (no support) from some of the negative press. They need positive letters and packages from us. We encourage you to pass his address to all that will support our troops. Some classrooms, Cub Scout Packs, Boy Scout Troops, and Church groups have adopted JB and his Platoon.

 

here are some pictures we wanted to share with all of you

 

 

 

 

 

thank you for your support

 

may God bless all of you, and our troops,

 

Kim, Rose, Kenny & Timmy

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If someone truly represents freedom, than they can be comfortable with their viewpoints being questioned.

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I am very uncomfortable hearing his veiw points being questioned, while he has his life on the line.

Can we keep the whining down to a minimum???

[Chris Rizzo]

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Give up on cmr...

He just don't get it!

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What a weak response to my valid questions..That statement only shows your lack of ability to provide legitimate answers to questions that pertain more to national security than the diversions we are being fed...

[Scott Bond]

OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chris Rizzo]

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OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yet another quality response....

[CAM-mando]

Rekd,

 

Kudos ... (now I feel bad about the mean things I thought about you last week).

 

"Dave teh apologetic"

[Brendan P]

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What a weak response to my valid questions..That statement only shows your lack of ability to provide legitimate answers to questions that pertain more to national security than the diversions we are being fed...

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cmr...

I just went back(and wasted my time)reading

all of your responses to all in this forum.

 

cmr NOW SAY's

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I support the Iraq actions,

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Thats not what you were saying earlier.

In fact if I remember,1 person was wondering if you were from the same planet.

[Chris Rizzo]

I was questioning the program before the operator pressed cycle start...There is no "feed hold" button on the miltary actions that are underway, I'm smart enough to realize that...Just hoped that we had closer examined the backplot