Mori Seiki Mapps Control?

[#Rekd™]

We are looking at several lathes and would like to know if anybody has a Mori Seiki Mapps III control?

 

Pros and cons?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Cons... it's slow as molasses in the dead of winter.

[#Rekd™]

How slow is it?

 

Thanks

[chris m]

Are they still Mitsubishi underneath? If so, forget the CAPPS or MAPPS or whatever over the top of it (which, I agree with James, is lousy) the Mitsubishi architecture underneath sucks. I am not a Fanuc fan by any means, but give me an 18i all day over the Mits.

[#Rekd™]

So the machine is top notch and the control is $xxxx?

[YoDoug®]

So the machine is top notch and the control is $xxxx?

 

If you want to know if the machine is top notch compare the size/number of spindle bearings, casting weight, size of linear guides/box ways, and other mechanicals to what is found in other manufacturers machines.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

So the machine is top notch and the control is $xxxx?

The dirty little secret about CRAPPS/MAPPS... whatever they are calling it today is that they don't want you to know what's under the hood. The salesman can say whatever he feels like saying and once it gets on the floor, it's not like you're going to return it.

[Chris Rizzo]

Last crapps I ran the windows overlay would crash periodically. Lovely.

[chris m]

In my opinion Mori-Seiki has been resting on their laurels for awhile when it comes to their turning product. In the 80s and 90s I think Mori built some really fine turning centers, but I have been unimpressed with what I've seen since then. We have a 2004 (or thereabouts) SL-204SMC (subspindle, M-function, full C axis, barfeed, etc) and the machine can't hold a candle to our Okumas for repeatability or accuracy. The machine is quick and has reasonable power but if you let it sit for 5 minutes you lose size and have to battle for 30 minutes to get it back; we called the Mori guys in and they just shrug. We will never buy a lathe that doesn't say Okuma on the front again; we have [17] of them in various flavors and they are just bulletproof. ZERO downtime for years and years, we hold a couple of tenths all day long even on the [20] year old LNC8s, the OSP takes a little getting used to but once you are comfortable with it you will prefer it to the Fanucs and Fanuc clones all day.

 

C

[YoDoug®]

The machine tool market is really comprised of three tiers of products. There is the A-game top notch machines, B-game mid level machines and the commodity level machines. 20 years ago all of the new technology was coming from the A-games machine builders. However today the B-game builders are starting to catch up on the technology, some even lead. This leaves the A-game players with two choices IMO, be the best of the best or lower your costs by using B-grade components so you can compete with the B-game builders on price. When you are considering what you would consider a top notch machine do a little investigating into their actual components/mechanical, and it will be easy to see who is still building A-game machines.

[chris m]

Doug, while I agree with most of your commentary, the fact that you work for a company that sells competing machine tools calls your opinion into question for me. I remember when this wasn't the case, and I always respected your insights and opinions, but I doubt very much that you would now say "Mori's machines rock" even if they did; I don't really know what I am trying to get across here, but my piece has been said.

 

C

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

IMHO, there are only a few lathe builders that have not sold out to try to be all things to all people. Mori is NOT one of them. I've heard more complaints about Mori Seiki in the last 2-3 years than I did in the combined previous 15 years. The old one, two and first generation 3 digit machines are still holding tenths all day long every day. Today's machine... not so much.

[chris m]

True dat; our 1980 Sl-2 will still hold .0005 with a little coaxing

[YoDoug®]

Doug, while I agree with most of your commentary, the fact that you work for a company that sells competing machine tools calls your opinion into question for me. I remember when this wasn't the case, and I always respected your insights and opinions, but I doubt very much that you would now say "Mori's machines rock" even if they did; I don't really know what I am trying to get across here, but my piece has been said.

 

C

 

I understand what you are saying Chris, my opinion is obviously slanted towards Okuma. However, That's why I left out brand names and suggested that anyone considering an A-game machine to do some research into how the machine is built and what kind of components are in it.

 

 

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

...anyone considering an A-game machine to do some research into how the machine is built and what kind of components are in it.

ESPECIALLY what components are in it. I've seen people unwittingly get a machine that had (for example) another control when the salesman said FANUC, then when they went to purchase options... ZZZZZZIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGG.... "I'm sorry, we don't offer that option on that control".

[#Rekd™]

James what other lathes would you recommend (2 axis)?

 

Thanks

[Sticky]

Nakamura would be my first choice.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

James what other lathes would you recommend (2 axis)?

Thanks

 

I don't have a tremendouns amount of experience with 2-Axis lathes... kinda funny I know... put a few turrets, a couple spindles, and I can speak with a little more authority. LOL

 

But, I do like Hardinge T-Series, Nakamura SC series, Okuma LB series, not sure what Miyano's current offerings are in the 2-Axis market, but they make good machines, Tsugami MB series I've heard good things about as well. I used to say good things about Mori but anymore, you don't know what you're getting under the hood. I will say this, you're getting buzzwords and acronyms.

[YoDoug®]

 

But, I do like Hardinge T-Series, Nakamura SC series, Okuma LB series, not sure what Miyano's current offerings are in the 2-Axis market, but they make good machines, Tsugami MB series I've heard good things about as well. I used to say good things about Mori but anymore, you don't know what you're getting under the hood. I will say this, you're getting buzzwords and acronyms.

 

I agree fully, you won't be disappointed with a Hardinge T-series, Nakamura or Okuma. The Biggest difference being the control on the machines. The Okuma is OSP and the other two are Fanuc. The Hardinge will be a pretty standard feeling Fanuc lathe. Nakamura does a really good job at putting their own flavor on the Fanuc control making it more user friendly. BTW, we are also a Hardinge distributor as well.

 

 

 

[chris m]

I am sorry but Hardinge CNCs are junk; Nakamura-Tome and Okuma make the only CNC turning centers worth talking about. When you get into smaller stuff companies like Tsugami come into the mix for sure, but for an 8" or 10" machine Nakamura and Okuma will crush all comers.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I am sorry but Hardinge CNCs are junk...

I've got one customer in particular with a few of their machines with the high resolution encoders and they do some seriously close tolerance work with them. They are reliable, they hold tolerance, and they don't have to fight offsets the rest of the day after lunch. Pretty good in my book. Their Nakamura is able to hold the same tolerances without the high resolution encoders but both machines are thermally stable and hold tenths all day every day.

[#Rekd™]

Thanks for the input guys!

[chris m]

I've got one customer in particular with a few of their machines with the high resolution encoders and they do some seriously close tolerance work with them

 

I have [2] "Super Precision" Conquest lathes they can have for the price of the rigging if they're interested; Hardinge, pffffft...