O/T Oemeta coolant

[Slixmix]

Our shop is going to try out some new coolant in one of our Horizontals. It is Oemeta Estramet. I was wondering if anyone has any input about this coolant. We currently use Blaser. Thanks,

[chris m]

Quite a discussion here:

 

Coolant thread

[McRae]

Don't Change a thing. You already have the best.

 

Lock your doors and keep that salivating dog of a coolant guy the heck away form your plant.

[Slixmix]

Andrew, thats what I was thinking also. We ran into a problem with our coolant going bad but I think it is due to poor maintenence. We broke a bunch of tools due to the coolant being at 2%. The big wigs caught wind and now we find ourselves in this situation. We'll see how it works.

[McRae]

quote:

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I think it is due to poor maintenence. We broke a bunch of tools due to the coolant being at 2%.

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Unfortunatly, people make huge assumptions like this. Once a product has been successful for a period of time, somehting creeps out of spec due to poor maintenance and all the sudden the product isn't any good!

 

This is why maintenance records are an important part of any Quality System (QS, ISO, MIL, Etc...)

[mayday]

We have used Blazer for about 3 yrs now.

But has anyone else had this problem?

Our rubber wipers on the way covers are disapearing. we used to use rustlick and never had that problem.

[Brendan P]

Is the Blazer cut a senthetic coolant?

If so,we had problems using the full senthetic coolants made by Castrol.

Switches sticking,alum fixtures getting eaten away...(like an electrolisis thing)

[mayday]

Blazer guru's have tested everything.They say our water is the cause. think its easier to change coolant than it is the ground water

[McRae]

I have a sticker right on the side of the integrex warning that a coolant needs to be selected that is compatible with NBR syntheic rubber. This could be your problem and I would then ask Blaser for a written guarentee that this is the case. That way, if there are failures and the root cause identified as coolant - guess who pays! If they don't go for it - switch, there is on average about 80% profit margin in coolant products. This is why they all fight like dogs over scraps to get your business!

[mayday]

Thats a good idea.

Rustlick was a very good coolant...only problem was keeping the tank clean. gets real smelly

our floormill holds almost 500 gal

[Rick McAllister]

Hey Nick,

If the coolant smell like urine, you may have an operator problem!

[Brendan P]

quote:

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They say our water is the cause. think its easier to change coolant than it is the ground water

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These idiots tried telling us the same B.S. story too!

If you find a coolant that you want to try out,they should be more than happy to give you enough as a "trial" if they really back up their product.

 

The first thing they will tell you that "poor maintenance" is the reason for spoiled coolant.

(this may be true,however this just gives them ammunition when the stuff does turn to Sh!t)!

 

I think you really gotta watch these guys,I think they went to the same school as car salesmen!

[mayday]

Our (car salesman) is checking into our problems as we type. Maybe theres a recall we dont know about

[Guest]

N Franco:

 

We had a problem with coolant one time. Trim sol had been working for years then suddenly it would not mix into the water. It would separate after 10-15 min. The problem was the water. I called the local water agency and they told me that they had switch water sources. The new water was much harder. This caused the separation issue. We ended up buying a 50 gal a day Reverse Osmosis system with UV lights to control the bacteria. Once we got all the machines (Maybe 250 gallons total) changed out our separation problem went away and many other problems like staining, rusting, and more. Have your water checked. I'm not siding with the (car salesmen) but it could be a contributor to the problem.

[Dan_AKA_ROY]

I don't use coolant, and I machine aluminum molds! Very informative thread. Next month we're getting a vertical mill so I'll have to takes down some notes here. I run a 3 axis CNC router. We use a wax-like lubricant we smear over the bit. Our bits work like dogs, the stuff is amazing! Sorry, can't recall the name. I'll find out tomorrow and post it here. It works great with band saws. One guy told me he used to go through 8 saws for a particular job. Now, 1 saw does the jog, AND he says it's still sharp and ready for more action! I believed him, because my router bits work great with it.

[Brendan P]

quote:

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suddenly it would not mix into the water.

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Thanks for reminding me.

And another thing I learned from these guys is that "you are not supposed to add water to the coolant"

You are supposed to add the coolant to a "barrel" of water and mix it with a stick!

(they claim that it will never mix properly if done otherwise)

Or "We can sell you a special pump that will automatically mix it perfect for you".

Give me a break!

[mayday]

we bought the mixer. amost a grand.works great

for mixing. any % you want.We also use a phas-sep

separator in the tank. that helps keep out the goo

[McRae]

As a result of Bucketheads comments, I would like to repost something from the eariler thread.

 

quote:

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If some sales person states that his coolant is the most user friendly and eco-concious, serve him a tall cool glass of the stuff. If he drinks it, buy it as the worst that will happen is a bad case of the squirts.

 

Dermotitis is caused from a host of things and a contributing factor in this is PH. This needs to also be monitored As well as coolant concentration.

 

Adding Water to Coolant.

All soluble coolants contain a surfactant product that acts as an emulsifier. These emulsifiers look and act like a pin. There is a pointed end and a round PinHead end. The point will attach itself to the oil droplet and the pinhead will act as an attachment mechanism to the water droplets. If you add straight water to a coolant solution, there is no emulsifier in the mix and you run the risk of having a second phase in the emulsion (Straight Water).

 

Droplet size is another important feature of the equasion. The smaller the droplet, the higher the lubricity of the emulsion. This is why after time James notices that his coolant performance is lower that when new as the droplets under brownian motion have collided and combined into larger droplets. Draw an accute angled wedge and then draw two tangent circles, notice that the smaller diameter circle is closer to the point (Cutting Edge) and will offer better protection and heat removal that the larger droplet.

 

The JetMix units with the Blasser system will atomize the coolant and make the proper mixing ratio to refill a tank. Keep the tramp oil off and the coolant mixing (Thru use!) and a changing schedule of every 6 months and you should be ok. Check into methods of coolant reclaimation, as the hazzardous oil waste can be expensive to dump out...

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The way in which you treat your coolant is extreemly important. I develop a rash very easily from coolant that is either rancid, has a concentration that is too high, or contains irritant ingredients.

 

This is chemistry folks, these factors are time, temperature, humidity, concentration, frequency of use, and contaiminate dependant variables. There isn't an offset to control that will make it on size, nor is there a digital response to any of these inputs. There is a science behind it and to dismiss it outright with a comment similar to Bucketheads, is only a demonstration on how little one actually knows about a subject.

[G Caputo]

I always thought there was a science to machining a part. I just didn't know you had to be a scientist to be a machinist....sorry, couldn't resist.

[Guest]

Good post Andrew. I agree completely. Coolant is like any other system of the machine tool. It needs scheduled maintenance.

[Brendan P]

quote:

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Bucketheads, is only a demonstration on how little one actually knows about a subject.

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Andrew,

I sat down with 3 different coolant salesman in 1 week.

Each one had a different story to tell about their product.

One even brought in a little bottle (Hangsterfers) with a mixture of coolant and water.(just so you could smell its fresh scent after kicking around in his briefcase for a month)

 

What I am trying to express is that you have to watch these guys because each one may have a gimmick.(you can believe what you want)

But the one thing that they will all tell you is that you have to maintain it.(no kidding)

This is half of the battle.

 

I am not trying to be a smart a$$.

I am just trying to relay our personal experience with them.

Tramp oil is one of the worst things you can have running into your coolant tank.

I would not go as far as to say that I have not much experience with this subject.

 

Respectfully

[Andris Skulte]

quote:

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Adding Water to Coolant.

All soluble coolants contain a surfactant product that acts as an emulsifier. These emulsifiers look and act like a pin. There is a pointed end and a round PinHead end. The point will attach itself to the oil droplet and the pinhead will act as an attachment mechanism to the water droplets. If you add straight water to a coolant solution, there is no emulsifier in the mix and you run the risk of having a second phase in the emulsion (Straight Water).

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I guess I'm not following completely. If the emulsifier acts like a connector pin with a sharp point to attach to an oil molecule and a round end to attach to a water molecule, why will the round end not attach to a water molecule when water is added to coolant (rather than coolant to water)? The emulsifier in the mix is the same as was in the coolant concentrate as before.

 

quote:

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Droplet size is another important feature of the equasion. The smaller the droplet, the higher the lubricity of the emulsion. This is why after time James notices that his coolant performance is lower that when new as the droplets under brownian motion have collided and combined into larger droplets. Draw an accute angled wedge and then draw two tangent circles, notice that the smaller diameter circle is closer to the point (Cutting Edge) and will offer better protection and heat removal that the larger droplet.

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Is this coolant molecule size that is spoken about (rather than droplet size)? Droplet size seems like it should depend on your coolant nozzles/velocity/pressure/surface tension/etc prior to the coolant hitting the workpiece/tool interface. I don't mean to nit-pick, I'm just trying to understand it

 

Andris

[mayday]

THIS IS A GOOD QUESTION FOR

BILL NYE THE SIENCE GUY

[Dan_AKA_ROY]

Cut Ease stick lubricant - This is the name of the wax-like lube I apply to my router bits. It works fantastic. It contains no wax, the lubricant has a wax-like texture. Our router bits are cutting aluminum and lasting a long time with a nice finish. Coolant system would probably work better on routers, but we don't have that option. For milling, you gotta go with coolant.

[McRae]

quote:

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Is this coolant molecule size that is spoken about (rather than droplet size)? Droplet size seems like it should depend on your coolant nozzles/velocity/pressure/surface tension/etc prior to the coolant hitting the workpiece/tool interface. I don't mean to nit-pick, I'm just trying to understand it

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The size that I am refering to is the oil droplet size that is suspended in the water as the transport mechanism. The controlling facor for this is the mixing. If a Jet Mix is used, the coolant is atomized inside the water. You would need to stir the bucket until your arm falls off in order to atomize the mixture.