Mastercam vs Mastercam for SolidWorks

[Sticky]

Bob yes this is some of the new options, I used it as came across it. I was mirroring a part to do the Opposite hand and I had tilts that needed to be adjusted and this become very handy.

 

Sticky, this would work great for these options and not have to make reference geo for every plane.

Is there a non rotate option?

[Jayson Kramer]

What do you mean non rotate option. do you mean just an option to move leaner for example?
Have you ever used the Dynamic Planes or WCS?

[Sticky]

What do you mean non rotate option. do you mean just an option to move leaner for example?

Have you ever used the Dynamic Planes or WCS?

I haven't used dynamic planes, but i have used dynamic wcs.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "leaner"?

 

I don't want to rotate anything, I just want to set a wcs to a feature and then have it maintain associativity to that feature/part.

[Jayson Kramer]

Then these new option coming in X8 will make it easy. I have found it useful just this morning. if you do allot of Horizontal programming then Dynamic Planes are the way to go. I am doing allot of 3+2 programming these days and dynamic planes are quick and ready to path. I may need to add to my videos one showing the difference between the two when programming. I am figuring you with  programming that in X7 that Named Views are your friend correct?

[Bob W.]

I clarified with my reseller and here is what I found out. If I have Solidworks I can add Mastercam functionality to it for a nominal fee which is roughly what it costs to upgrade from Mill level 3 to advanced multi-axis. I feel that this is pretty reasonable. I would NOT be purchasing an additional seat of Mastercam and there would not be an additional HASP. The HASP that has this functionality added to it would open regular stand alone Mastercam and also allow the MC for SW functionality. Not too bad and that is the way it should be IMHO.

[Sticky]

Would love to see a video Jay, and thanks for all the other videos you have made on youtube. Its very generous of you.

 

I only do hmc programming. Don't even have a vertical here. And lately pretty much every part I am working on has multiple planes involved, often with 20-100 part across a tombstone.

 

I am still using X6, but I am maintenance. We are skipping X7 and waiting for X8, or X8 mcfsw (which sounds like the best option besides the lack of probing).

 

As for named views, I'm not sure if you are referring to view sheets, or custom wcs' in the view manager? (MC terminology is muddy at best).

 

I'll explain my process for you so you have a rough idea what I am doing.

 

-Import a tombstone assembly with fixtures and parts from SW (100-1000parts)

-Spend the next 30m-1hr sorting all the components into their own levels and creating 4-100 custom wcs's

-Create matching view sheets for each plane I am working on

-Create curves for all the features I need to machine and put them on their own levels

-Finally start making some tool paths.

 

 

Bob, that sounds pretty reasonable, I'll talk to my dealer as well and see if they are willing to do that.

[Jayson Kramer]

Sticky here are few more thoughts for your needs on how you are working with the options.

let me know if this helps.

 

And I agree the cost that they are offering to add this to your sim is a good cost.

[Sticky]

Thanks for the tips Jay

 

I should definitely make a level manager template.

 

Can you make view manager templates?

 

As for the named views, I don't think those will do anything because I want a new wcs on each tplane.

[Jayson Kramer]

 

I want a new wcs on each tplane.

 Why is this are you working from center of rotation for the main WCS then new planes from there? Maybe we should ask the folks here how they deal with the planes for indexing.

As you create these new WCS in the beginning , then you go to program you are selecting the  view manger and change all three the WCS,Cplane and Tplane for each view. were I program all that is change is the T&C planes and WCS stays in Top view.

 

 

Can you make view manager templates?

 

As for this the closet would be make a dummy file with the views you want . then when you open you new file right click and use import and select that dummy MC file and select what one you want to import to this file.

[Joe788]

Sticky here are few more thoughts for your needs on how you are working with the options.

let me know if this helps.

 

Even better:  Tie the "named views" button to a button on your space pilot, and change the "Top" button on the SpacePilot to "Gview=Tplane" 

[Sticky]

 Why is this are you working from center of rotation for the main WCS then new planes from there? Maybe we should ask the folks here how they deal with the planes for indexing.

As you create these new WCS in the beginning , then you go to program you are selecting the  view manger and change all three the WCS,Cplane and Tplane for each view. were I program all that is change is the T&C planes and WCS stays in Top view.

 

 

As for this the closet would be make a dummy file with the views you want . then when you open you new file right click and use import and select that dummy MC file and select what one you want to import to this file.

 

Eh using center of rotation as the only wcs is ghetto imo.

 

I use a new wcs for a variety of reasons but these are the main ones off the top of my head.

 

1. When you are running a program all programmed values are easily related to the print. ie if the drill is -1." below the top surface of the part that is what it says on your machines coordinate display, not some odd number like 12.34897"

2. If you need to make a small change to one of the parts while running the program, you can just make a small change to that features offset and move on. Particularly useful for when a tool is maybe a bit dull and you swapped it out and just need to blend something back in. No reposting necessary.

3. Ideal for when features are not always in the same position. IE castings and weldments.

4. Ideal for fixturing that isn't can't be repeatable for one reason or another (often related to castings and weldments).

5. Most machines aren't square enough to hold tight tolerances on parts over the entire travel of the Y axis. Ie you have a part sitting on B0, you face the right and left sides of the part, the odds of this being the same distance across the part when the part is sitting on the pallet vs. 24" off the table is not so good. FWIW I have my machine square in YZ over 24" to .0002" and it took some effort to get it there. Most machines I work on are out .002" or more over 24" in YZ, and its usually because of a bad foundation and almost always a poor job squaring the machine. Most techs show up with a 300mm or smaller square...

6. Center of rotation drifts with the machines thermal growth, I find it a lot easier to deal with this by probing a known feature and shifting the wcs's I need rather then the whole COR.

7. General probing on any feature, is just easier for me to write and understand when all the numbers are directly related to the part/print. particularly when I need to probe a surface and shift from the probed location.

8. Easier to diagnose problems with a program, or part related tolerances.

9. Decreases mishaps during program prove outs. I'm not perfect, sometimes I fat finger a value in a tool path... and if you only fat fingered something .001-.010" its not likely you will catch it when using COR only. Easy to recognize that something is going to go .010" too deep with a wcs associated to the part.

10. Easier to get things back online after a crash, fixture damage etc

11. makes it easier to shift the job and fixtures to a different machining center.

 

 

Yes I know some of those overlap

 

The only con IMO is that its a pain to setup. But I don't think it has to be.

[Joe788]

Eh using center of rotation as the only wcs is ghetto imo.

 

I use a new wcs for a variety of reasons but these are the main ones off the top of my head.

 

1. When you are running a program all programmed values are easily related to the print. ie if the drill is -1." below the top surface of the part that is what it says on your machines coordinate display, not some odd number like 12.34897"

2. If you need to make a small change to one of the parts while running the program, you can just make a small change to that features offset and move on. Particularly useful for when a tool is maybe a bit dull and you swapped it out and just need to blend something back in. No reposting necessary.

3. Ideal for when features are not always in the same position. IE castings and weldments.

4. Ideal for fixturing that isn't can't be repeatable for one reason or another (often related to castings and weldments).

5. Most machines aren't square enough to hold tight tolerances on parts over the entire travel of the Y axis. Ie you have a part sitting on B0, you face the right and left sides of the part, the odds of this being the same distance across the part when the part is sitting on the pallet vs. 24" off the table is not so good. FWIW I have my machine square in YZ over 24" to .0002" and it took some effort to get it there. Most machines I work on are out .002" or more over 24" in YZ, and its usually because of a bad foundation and almost always a poor job squaring the machine. Most techs show up with a 300mm or smaller square...

6. Center of rotation drifts with the machines thermal growth, I find it a lot easier to deal with this by probing a known feature and shifting the wcs's I need rather then the whole COR.

7. General probing on any feature, is just easier for me to write and understand when all the numbers are directly related to the part/print. particularly when I need to probe a surface and shift from the probed location.

8. Easier to diagnose problems with a program, or part related tolerances.

9. Decreases mishaps during program prove outs. I'm not perfect, sometimes I fat finger a value in a tool path... and if you only fat fingered something .001-.010" its not likely you will catch it when using COR only. Easy to recognize that something is going to go .010" too deep with a wcs associated to the part.

10. Easier to get things back online after a crash, fixture damage etc

11. makes it easier to shift the job and fixtures to a different machining center.

 

 

Yes I know some of those overlap

 

The only con IMO is that its a pain to setup. But I don't think it has to be.

 

Dave you can get all that same stuff using just 1 WCS. You just use TPlanes, and when you create the TPlane, you tic the "Set New Origin" box. Although, that basically creates a WCS anyways, since it shows up in the view manager. The stock MPMaster post generates the B axis moves based on the angle between the WCS and the Tplane.  Our horizontal programs have all the same WCS, and whatever number of TPlanes it takes to get the job done.

[Sticky]

Ok now that I have read what Joe said what Jay was asking makes more sense. I had no idea you could create a work offset with a  tplane, I was taught wcs=how and where you make your work offset.

 

So are Tplanes associative without having to make two lines and a point?

[Jayson Kramer]

Sticky, I do understand what you are saying and I do not mean it has to all be one Datum and offset. but you are still just moving the T&C planes so that it sees a change in planes so the need to be different. I thing you are a little confused on the difference between use of WCS in conjunction to using T/Cplans. Also each named view will use the offset based on the WCS and planes in the Plane Manager. ps the View Manager is now called the Plane Manager they made it simpler to handle view and planes and WCS from my view.

 

you can have different offsets and so on. Also look at the thought of what Joe stated.

question ,when you program the B0 is this Top or Front for you?

 

PS Thanks for calling me Ghetto. lol

 

Eh using center of rotation as the only wcs is ghetto imo.

[Jayson Kramer]

Hey is your name Dave? do you know Joe?

[Sticky]

Sticky, I do understand what you are saying and I do not mean it has to all be one Datum and offset. but you are still just moving the T&C planes so that it sees a change in planes so the need to be different. I thing you are a little confused on the difference between use of WCS in conjunction to using T/Cplans. Also each named view will use the offset based on the WCS and planes in the Plane Manager. ps the View Manager is now called the Plane Manager they made it simpler to handle view and planes and WCS from my view.

 

you can have different offsets and so on. Also look at the thought of what Joe stated.

question ,when you program the B0 is this Top or Front for you?

 

PS Thanks for calling me Ghetto. lol

 

I understand what you are saying know. I was definitely confused about wcs and t/c planes. When I took training I was just taught to make a new wcs if I wanted the post to output a new work offset.

 

So are the Tplanes more associative then wcs'?

 

Hey is your name Dave? do you know Joe?

 

Yep my name is Dave. I know Joe through the interwebs. If either of you guys ever want to meet up for dinner or drinks though let me know, I am in the area a few times a year. I'll buy

[Sticky]

I forgot to add, B0 is my FRONT.

[Jayson Kramer]

Dave,

They are not more associative it is an easier way to handle and control them. so not worry about the WCS as it will not change. Maybe some time we can do a meeting online for few min and go thru some examples and how it works.

 

Also did anyone ever talked to you about unchecking these options.

 

 

So you live in California? I think it would be great to get together a few of us. I was seem to miss Joe. lol

 

[Sticky]

Hey Jay, don't live in SoCal anymore, but still do business in San Diego and TJ. I still consider San Diego home, so I am down there for holidays and family stuff too.

 

Yes both those options are unchecked on my system.

 

I tired playing with Tplanes for a bit today, but it doesn't seem to save any time or convenience to me? Maybe I'm doing it wrong. I'd love to do a quick online meeting to see what you have in mind:)

 

Where the heck did Ryan go? Still want to get the skinny on wcs associativity in mcfsw