Autodesk Vault

[dannysdad]

Hello Folks,

 

My company has decided to move all .dwg files from a local drive unto Autodesk Vault. In the past whenever I wanted to file/merge a part file into Mastercam (X6), I would specify the local drive (in my case it was L Drive) and then follow the engineering tree until I found that file, click on file and then Mastercam would import the file. But now all of our part files are on some cloud someplace that I cannot seem to access through Mastercam. I have access through the web and I can view/print files through my DWGTrueView but i cannot find the path for merge.

 

Any advice?

 

Thanks and Happy Cinco de Mayo!

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Go pound the manager who made that decision?

[absolute technologies]

Wouldn't you have to check out the document first so there's a local copy, then merge it? We're using Predator PDM for all electronic files now and IMHO it's a steaming pile of poo.

 

Cheers!

Len Dye

[m98custom1212]

O great vault that program is horrible. You have install a client to get the native dwg file

[Watcher]

Ok... let me throw a few thoughts here to help with I perceive as uninformed opinions about PDM integration.

 

 

Go pound the manager who made that decision?

 

The manager made a great move. Any organization that implements a PDM is more prepared for ISO audits, engineering & process compliance practices, and digital manufacturing in its best definitions. I´ll elaborate more ahead.

 

 

We're using Predator PDM for all electronic files now and IMHO it's a steaming pile of poo.

 

We have both Inventor and Autodesk Vault here for engineering models, and CIMCO NC-Base as our NC-Data PDM. We use Edgecam here, and it is able to do what 'dannysdad'  is attempting to do in Mastercam. It has more to do with how the two systems (Edgecam/Vault) were interfaced than with how each deals with files. I´ll elaborate more ahead.

 

 

O great vault that program is horrible. You have install a client to get the native dwg file

 

With all due respect, this is an uninformed opinion. It works just like a PDM system is supposed to work. This opinion is much based on a NC-Programmer perspective, within a specific box where engineering & process data management are merely distractions. They´re not, and I´ll try to help you to see why.

 

Here we go:

 

About the manager´s decision:

 

PDM systems are database driven. Databases, as you know, have constrains and relationships that ensure that the ACID principles are obtained and maintained when data is manipulated. Databases were invented because human beings are excellent tools to mess up with data, and to fail in organizing them in a sustained way.

 

A PDM system consists basically of 3 things:

• A server side application
• A database server 
• A client side application

The clients are installed on the end user machines, and talk to the server application and the database that connects both. Since all transactions are managed by a centralized database, you can have two people from different parts of the world, that never exchanged a single hello through any communication channel, working in the same project without conflicts. If one guy checks out a file, other cannot work on the same file. A basic principle that can´t be obtained using Windows Explorer to manage data.

 

Benefits of PDM, and why that manager made the right move IMHO: (I took a part from Wikipedia and added others myself)

• Track and manage all changes to product related data
• Spend less time organizing and tracking design data
• Improve productivity through reuse of product design data
• Enhance collaboration
• Helps using visual management
• Enforces compliance rules and export control measures
• Allow the company to comply with rules of markets and customers, and to quickly embrace and globally/comprehensively comply with future requirements/changes.
• Protects the company and customer´s IP
• Allow project metrics and progress to be measured
• Allow structured integration between applications
• Allow integration with business systems (SAP, Oracle ERP, etc.)
• Allow versioning and revision control of changes
• Limit checkouts
• Classify data and storage locations by nearly all criteria you need (By customer, PN, location, project, whatever...)
• Workflows to automate releases
• Allow libraries and standards to be widely adopted without parallel instances

And another hundred of reasons why a company gets more robust backed up by a PDM. To work for some companies, get an ISO certificate, it´s is sometimes imperative to prove them how you handle data. File management on a Windows share can´t do much.

 

On Predator PDM:

 

I don´t know much of it beyond the pics in the website. I always found CIMNET and Predator interfaces outdated, cluttered when compared to CIMCO NC-Base / PDM.

 

However, their working principles are the same, the architecture / server <-> DB <-> Client is the same. So I presume that it is the interface that makes it to have a poor workflow. But I´m sure it delivers what it says. I think it´s a poor and legacy interface that makes their customers frustrated with all that code ported from Windows 98.

 

Besides, I seriously doubt they offer the same level of functionality CIMCO offers. I say because they add almost every little nice to have thing we need. For Mastercam users then, it´s the heaven.

 

CIMCO is the Danish Mastercam reseller. They know MC inside out and have lots of off-the-shelf plugins that integrate their products to MC.

 

About Autodesk Vault:

 

Autodesk Vault was one of the first PDM products designed to be affordable, born as truEVault in 1999. Autodesk then bought the company truEInnovations.

 

It was created on similar premises that SolidWorks offered in the late 90´s: A PC based PDM with low cost and based on Windows Architecture. Before it you had a few options like PTC Pro/Intralink, SolidWorks PDM, the previous generation of Siemens TeamCenter.. I forgot it´s name...

 

Because Autodesk Vault was not created back then by a CAx company, it was born to manage nearly everything that was file based. CAD files, Sketches, Word docs, PDFs, whatever. So it is built on the premise to offer diversity. Back then this was not necessarily true for existing products, that were limited to manage only data they created.

 

Then Autodesk bought it. And they made it work with their products seamlessly. Autodesk is the grandmother of CAD companies. If there´s one thing they master is the quirks and challenges of design and data management. So Vault is a robust product, but in almost every organization using it, the manufacturing guys do not get the same attention and training that engineering guys do. So it´s common to see people blaming it because they never learned how to use it well, or were never listened in the implementation process. The result is almost always issues like CAM systems not being able to access files directly anymore, or seeing it as a blocker and not an improvement in their workflows.

 

Not saying that´s someone´s case here. Just sharing my experience with this.

 

Now about the integration with Mastercam:

 

Vault uses an architecture, that depending on the company size, may cover several servers in different locations, each one replicating data from a master server to a local server to speed up data retrieval / upload. Not sure how big your organization is.

 

Because of this, usually filenames are changed in the database to ensure that naming rules are used when storing data.

 

Example:

 

You name your file in the network folder as 'lower_bracket_Ø2in_|_upper_assy.dwg' or in Portuguese for example 'Suspensão_Condição.mcx'

 

Whereas Windows explorer accepts the chars "Ø" and "|" and the other latin chars, some file systems may find problems with that. Imagine that a Linux server or a cloud system is being used to store the file. (Linux BTW can handle anything, this is just an example).

 

Also, each version of the file needs to have a new name. CIMCO NC-Base backup files like this 'My_Part.mcx.1', 'My_Part.mcx.2', etc, but not all systems work that way. What high-end PDMs (And Vault is one) do is to usually change the file name to a unique name, that is mapped and linked to the original filename in the database, but that cannot be recognized when sitting on the server.

 

Examples:

 

You have a file named 'Mastercam.dwg' to check-in for the first time.

 

The Vault client, after ensuring that you are yourself and that you have access to the vaults where data is stored, will ask the server for a name:

 

The client says: "I have this 'Mastercam.dwg' file here - Which name and location, based on this criteria (PN, customer, project, whatever) you have available for me?" 

The server: "Well, name it 10000234999222.dat and because it´s for project Rocket III, store it in the folder \\USSRVVault\Projects\Classified\RIII\MastercamFiles\"

The client: "Ok - Check-in done - I stored it and the old name is inserted on the table blablabla along with all metadata and new location."

 

'10000234999222.dat' uses a naming convention. It also prevents that people with access to the server folder to easily identify data by simply looking at the file name. A hacker for example would have to download all files in the server (A massive amount of data but after Sony scandal these things seems so easy now), but without the database (Which is usually encrypted/salted) he would never know which files are referencing each other, and which file is the latest version of a given model/drawing.

 

Even possessing all files, the opening of any file referencing other file would blatantly fail, because internally the files are still calling each other by their original names. This is done to increase security and data atomicity.

 

Then Daniel, an employee working in Japan´s office, needs to make a engineering revision on the model that was checked-in above:

 

The client on his machine talks to the server backend:

 

Client says: "Hey, what´s the latest version of the model PN 1345-34, and where is it located?"

Server: "This model is in version 1, and the file name is '10000234999222.dat', it is stored in the U.S. server at \\USSRVVault\Projects\Classified\RIII\MastercamFiles\"

Server: "This model also calls out several referenced files, you need them to be able to visualize the model."

Server: "The models are '10000134666233.dat' and '10000287345022.dat', respectively 'spot_face.dwg' and 'thread.dwg', and are stored in \\FranceSRVVault\Libraries\SPOTFACES\" and \\FranceSRVVault\Libraries\THREADS\" folders, respectively.

 

Client then downloads '10000234999222.dat', '10000134666233.dat' and '10000287345022.dat' from their current locations, to a local folder.

 

Client then renames them locally to the original filenames in the database: 'Mastercam.dwg', 'spot_face.dwg' and 'thread.dwg'

 

Because 'spot_face.dwg' and 'thread.dwg' are standardized items, the client keep them as read-only. Daniel cannot change it locally, or if he does, he won´t be able to check it in because he does not have write permissions in the library folders, since he has a designer role and not a CAD admin one.

 

Daniel changes the drawing/model and check it in back

 

Client: "Hey, I have a new version of the file 'Mastercam.dwg', which name can I use now - I already know the location.

Server: "Go with '678002323095322.dat' - I´ll make a note that this is the 2nd and latest version of 'Mastercam.dwg'"

Client: "Check-in complete - I also replicated a copy of this file to the Japan server in order to speed up data retrieval / uploads if a future user on this country needs it. Here is the new location and file name - I took the liberty to update your master database with this reference to this instance so you can track where all copies are and can replicate them to other servers as well. Thanks!"

 

Got the idea?

 

Why I´m explaining all this: Because you need to understand that that filename you used may not be stored by the name you gave it. Versioning control would be impossible if it was.

 

Here´s the big differential of CAM companies with integrated PDM. They offer you the best of both worlds: CAM & PDM together, because PDM is a awesome resource when working with CAM files, but most people don´t miss it because never worked with one integrated to a CAM system. TopSolid CAM 7 shines on this area.

 

The ability to control post-processors, tool models, drawings, fixtures, nc-programs, setup sheets, you name it, to have version, access and revision control over all this is awesome!

 

Some articles that might give you an idea about how to deal with it:

 

How to download file in Vault (It´s not a checkout):  https://www.cadlinecommunity.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/206583039-Autodesk-Vault-2016-How-to-Get-files

 

This one is about the architecture and options - Good reading: http://aucache.autodesk.com/au2013/sessionsFiles/1742/1571/handout_1742_PL1742_Godfrey.pdf

 

PDM is a good thing and I think there´s room to streamline this integration with CAM at your company. I´m sure that if you have a valid maintenance contract with Autodesk, they can help your company to find a good balance so you can have a true link with the Vault model.

 

In the worst case, you will have a broken link with the vault model/drawing. That is, when you open Mastercam and it references a file in Vault, a live link with the Vault file is not guaranteed because of the storage methodology explained above. So you would have to download the file locally (Not necessarily check-out as the first link explains) and update references in Mastercam in case you need to make some maintenance in the MCX file.

 

The other alternative (I don´t endorse it) is to make your working directory a fixed and known network folder and point the dowloads shown in the first link to this folder. Then Mastercam can reference the files in this folder. If you know the file was changed or revised, you do a new download to overwrite the network copy and then Mastercam will reference this file just like it was before vault adoption at your company.

 

I don´t recommend it as it is a patch and against the correct practices, and against the very reasons why a PDM system exists first place.

 

I hope it helps, and I meant no offense in saying those are uniformed opinions. Just trying to help here.

[dannysdad]

Watcher,

 

Thank you very much for your very informative, knowledgeable and detailed response. I am now waiting for my Autodesk/Inventor guy to come in and explain it all to me!

[dannysdad]

Update for anyone interested. Using Internet Explorer (not Chrome or Firefox):

 

-Enter Vault

-Search for file

-Results will populate a list

-Click on wanted file

-General properties screen will emerge

-Click on file

-Popup screen will ask to either open or save file

-Click dropdown on save option

-Select "Save as" (I created a new folder on my desktop for these saved files)

-Save file to selected folder

-This gives user a path/destination for merging files

 

Thanks for all of the help!

 

Cheers!

- 

[Mick]

Daniel/Watcher, as always, your posts are well thought out and very informative. That was an extremely good description of PDM Functionality.