Machine kinematics based CAM program?

[Shiva.aero]

Can anyone tell what is Machine kinematics based CAM programming?

Marketing professionals from some CAM companies are claiming that their CAM is based on Machine kinematics. What exactly is Kinematics based CAM?

Is it something related to Machine simulation or the toolpath generation itself?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Shiva.aero said:

Can anyone tell what is Machine kinematics based CAM programming?

Marketing professionals from some CAM companies are claiming that their CAM is based on Machine kinematics. What exactly is Kinematics based CAM?

Is it something related to Machine simulation or the toolpath generation itself?

Yes, collision detection technology, an example would be the moduleworks technology using the post data to determine the actual machine/tool/holder positions and retract motion, such as in-house solutions ike posts or similar offerings from postability or others. 

I would say its more of a buzzword than anything else, I would ask them for a free demo that you run on your machine to prove the value, say you make a program with a mistake on purpose then see if the software detects it.

 

If you already have vericut and camplete, then you likely don't need this.

[crazy^millman]

What this means is the Kinematic areas and axis abilities are being used in all toolpath creation during the creation of the toolpath itself. Normally in a 3 Axis machine people are aware enough of the travel limits and will not program part bigger that that travel area. When you start adding axis of travel to the equation the tracking and process of toolpath creation becomes more difficult to track and keep from not over traveling as part of the toolpath creation. In non kinematic aware software like Mastercam it is up to the programmer to be aware and think 5-20 steps ahead in fixture creation, holder and tool selection to mitigate this problem. The other part of it is you can create nice looking toolpath that will never run on your machine and Mastercam allows it all day long because it has no idea what the travel limits and axis limits are for the machine you are programming are. It may know it is a HMC, VMC Trunnion and some other things, but as to what each axis can do and what the limits are for the toolpath it has no clue. You make the toolpath and either run though simulation or take it out to the machine and find the problem there.

With Kinematic awareness that some CAM Software have you must pick the machine first before even programming the part. Then al the travels and capabilities of the machine are known up front. Then all your programming is aware of those parameters and will allow you to program what you can and alert you when trying to program and operation not within those parameters. Now some make the claim and it is just a sale jimick and other do support it. Where do go by the canned demos make an AE sit down and program one of your most difficult part sight unseen. Software can program the most advanced 5 axis part you got in 5 minutes that the salesman has been telling management it can do then give them the 5 minutes and say okay clock is ticking. Have one right now where person told management competitive software can program all these hard undercuts and everything trouble free in less than 2 hours. AE came in and after a full day only got about 10% of what we are doing done. Salesman was pissed because he claimed oh yeah 2 hours and all of that can be programmed no problem. I said great I am all about learning new more powerful ways to accomplish what I do. I left the meeting after about 10 minutes when I saw their most knowledgeable AE struggling to get some into some areas that were difficult, but not the 2 clicks and done BS the salesman had been claiming it was.

Canned demos are great, but I have helped sale many seats of Mastercam just be being able to put my money where my mouth is. Mastercam can program any machine out there and yes Mastercam's lack of Kinematic awareness in programming does make the process at times more difficult, but it can get it done and do a good job doing it. I have staked my livelihood being a partner with CNC Software and using Mastercam exclusively for my CAM. Does it have areas it can do better oh yeah, but end of the day I can feed my family and keep a roof over my head using it so until that changes it will be what I use.

[Colin Gilchrist]

Having Machine Kinematics built into the CAM software, means the software is aware of the capabilities of your machine, at the Toolpath level. Most CAM Systems are not 'kinematically aware'.

Almost all CAM Software is "tool path centric". Meaning that the software is only aware of the Stock, Drive Geometry, and Tool, when planning the path to remove the volume of stock, based on your inputs.

There is one package where this Kinematic machine knowledge is used "up front", during the path creation stage. It allows you to choose how the path should use machine functions.

Unfortunately, the costs of the Machine File, Post Processor Development Costs, and the lack of a decent userbase, mean that it isn't a popular product in the United States. There is almost zero print advertising in any of the trade magazines for manufacturing. It is the "best software that you've never heard of". There is almost no training available, and certainly zero 'Advance Training' available for Aerospace machining, unless you speak fluent French, and have budget available to travel to France for training.

Plus, since the userbase is so small, you'll have extreme difficulty in finding an experienced programmer. 

Try doing a national search on LinkedIn for "Mastercam Programmer" jobs. Then search for "_____ Programmer" jobs, and put other CAM software packages in the blank. The difference between Mastercam Programmer availability, and anything else, is pretty striking.

There are other great CAM software packages out there, but there is a reason Mastercam is so popular. Mastercam has a huge Education division, and and there are lots of schools teaching it. The Reseller networks provide local support and training opportunities, which aren't available from other software providers in the manufacturing space. Mastercam Post Processors are open for the users to develop, and these changes are relatively easy to make.

Although a CAM Software may be kinematicly aware, and there are some functions like 'automatic stock management', which are amazing, the tradeoff can be a lack of tool control at the Toolpath level. That said, having "real Simulation" during the Toolpath creation process, can be very powerful. Editing the 'linking moves' between Operations is amazing, because you can drive the actual machine tool however you want to. That said, be prepared for some eye-watering prices, especially when you consider having to purchase a Machine Environment (post + simulator), for each of the machines in your shop.

[Shiva.aero]

On 11/13/2021 at 9:11 PM, Colin Gilchrist said:

Having Machine Kinematics built into the CAM software, means the software is aware of the capabilities of your machine, at the Toolpath level. Most CAM Systems are not 'kinematically aware'.

Almost all CAM Software is "tool path centric". Meaning that the software is only aware of the Stock, Drive Geometry, and Tool, when planning the path to remove the volume of stock, based on your inputs.

There is one package where this Kinematic machine knowledge is used "up front", during the path creation stage. It allows you to choose how the path should use machine functions.

Unfortunately, the costs of the Machine File, Post Processor Development Costs, and the lack of a decent userbase, mean that it isn't a popular product in the United States. There is almost zero print advertising in any of the trade magazines for manufacturing. It is the "best software that you've never heard of". There is almost no training available, and certainly zero 'Advance Training' available for Aerospace machining, unless you speak fluent French, and have budget available to travel to France for training.

Plus, since the userbase is so small, you'll have extreme difficulty in finding an experienced programmer. 

Try doing a national search on LinkedIn for "Mastercam Programmer" jobs. Then search for "_____ Programmer" jobs, and put other CAM software packages in the blank. The difference between Mastercam Programmer availability, and anything else, is pretty striking.

There are other great CAM software packages out there, but there is a reason Mastercam is so popular. Mastercam has a huge Education division, and and there are lots of schools teaching it. The Reseller networks provide local support and training opportunities, which aren't available from other software providers in the manufacturing space. Mastercam Post Processors are open for the users to develop, and these changes are relatively easy to make.

Although a CAM Software may be kinematicly aware, and there are some functions like 'automatic stock management', which are amazing, the tradeoff can be a lack of tool control at the Toolpath level. That said, having "real Simulation" during the Toolpath creation process, can be very powerful. Editing the 'linking moves' between Operations is amazing, because you can drive the actual machine tool however you want to. That said, be prepared for some eye-watering prices, especially when you consider having to purchase a Machine Environment (post + simulator), for each of the machines in your shop.

Thank you!

Can you please tell how does the Mastercam uses the Machine configuration settings? The Machine configuration has all the details of the machine and how it is being used?