Is it possible to reach any orientation with 5 axis?

[Shiva.aero]

Is it possible to reach any orientation with 5 axis?

We have B-C configuration 5 axis machine with Siemens840d controller. I got a part with a feature oriented to A axis. At first, I thought it cannot be done in our machine, since our machine doesn't have A-axis. But I Programmed orienting to the A-axis.

When I check the output NC code, I noticed in cycle-800, in the fields of angles, all three angles (A,B&C with zxy sequence) have values printed (normally only B & C value gets printed with zyx sequence).

I decided to check the code in the machine. Normally for 3+2 operations, after the rotating axes gets oriented, our operator checks whether it is matching with the rotating axes values printed in the cycle800 or not. In this case it was not matching!. But we decided to go ahead and it was machined as per the drawing requirement without any problem. When I think in simple terms, say, a hole oriented to A axis, I understand that it can be machined in B-C machine by simply rotating the C axis to 90 degrees and then using B axis to orient. But I couldn't understand how the A axis is replaced with B-C axes combined rotation for complex/all orientations!

So is there no requirement for 6th axis and feature with any orientation can be machined with the 5 axis machine? How does the controller calculates the equivalent available rotary axes angles (B-C in this case) by taking all 3 angles as inputs?

Any suggestion is much appreciated.

Thank you!

 

[cncappsjames]

You can reach any plane that lies within your tilt limits. You must define the plane correctly though on your CYCLE800 line.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/134e0ap61mpj2mk/AAC5uQmVm-ZAvST8Njcc9Nu0a?dl=0

In here are the Siemens Level 3 5-Axis Milling PDF's and whatnot.

[crazy^millman]

Is it a nutating head machine? Angles really relates to vectors and on nutating heads sometimes you need all 3 angles to get to non standard angles. At standard angles you only need 2 angles since the nutating angles vectors align perfectly, but on non standard angles you need that extra one to define what is needed for the nutating angle to work out correctly.

[mayday]

not worth answering, you either don't have a good post or a clue what your doing.

you have no clue about ABCXYZ

A about X , B about Y, C about Z

thats just the written rule but in a post that can be changed.

 

[Shiva.aero]

6 hours ago, mayday said:

not worth answering, you either don't have a good post or a clue what your doing.

you have no clue about ABCXYZ

A about X , B about Y, C about Z

thats just the written rule but in a post that can be changed.

 

I do have a good post from MC. I also have a post which can post vectors instead of direct angles. Oh I know something about that!

A about , B about Y , C about Z... That can't be changed.. but the sequence can be changed by selecting the different 'axis by axis' mode' in cycle 800. I am just trying to understand how the Euler angles posted by post is converted to Direct angle by the controller and whether any angle can be reached or not.

Thank you.

[crazy^millman]

36 minutes ago, Shiva.aero said:

I do have a good post from MC. I also have a post which can post vectors instead of direct angles. Oh I know something about that!

A about , B about Y , C about Z... That can't be changed.. but the sequence can be changed by selecting the different 'axis by axis' mode' in cycle 800. I am just trying to understand how the Euler angles posted by post is converted to Direct angle by the controller and whether any angle can be reached or not.

Thank you.

Will you answer my questions?

[Shiva.aero]

On 11/30/2021 at 8:50 PM, crazy^millman said:

Is it a nutating head machine? Angles really relates to vectors and on nutating heads sometimes you need all 3 angles to get to non standard angles. At standard angles you only need 2 angles since the nutating angles vectors align perfectly, but on non standard angles you need that extra one to define what is needed for the nutating angle to work out correctly.

No, I am working with the Standard machine (DMG mori Dmu70 model)

Thanks!

[crazy^millman]

Then I would need a sample file and see how thew planes are sorted out. If they are non standard then what I said about could still apply. A Vector based output is completely different than a angular based output. If you are using Vectors then yes getting all Vectors output from the post does make sense. The machine is doing the heavy lifting taking the code and converting it to angular movements from the vectors. The advantage of that process is the portability of the NC code between different Kinematic types. Head/Head, Head/Table, Table/Table, Nutating Head/Table and Nutating Table/Head with Vectors one NC Code can run them all without needing editing. Where as with angles that would not be the case.

Here is an old topic on this subject:

Link

[cncappsjames]

Here's a sample of CYCLE800 pre-position and TRAORI...;

 

G0G90G54
CYCLE800(1,"K01",0,27,0,0,0,-5.894,-1.0159,0.0,0,0,0,-1)
X0.039Y0.1389B-1.0159C-5.894
CYCLE800()
TRAORI
G43Z1.8602H4
X0.0379Y0.1358Z0.8602A3=-0.0176B3=0.0018C3=0.9998
X0.0511Y0.1344Z0.1103A3=-0.0176B3=0.0018C3=0.9998
X0.0537Y0.1341Z-0.0396A3=-0.0176B3=0.0018C3=0.9998
G1G41X0.0549Y0.1340Z-0.1076A3=-0.0176B3=0.0018C3=0.9998F90.0
X0.0319Y0.1232Z-0.1228A3=-0.0176B3=0.0018C3=0.9998
.....
G40X0.0476Y0.1333Z-0.1088A3=-0.0125B3=0.0184C3=0.9998
G0X0.0356Y0.1512Z0.8590A3=-0.0125B3=0.0184C3=0.9998
TRAFOOF
G0G90G49G53Z0.0

[mkd]

I believe any Traori or cycle 800 will run on a 5 axis of any configuration. Head-Head table-table or Table head doesn't matter as the specific machines Kinematic file will do the translation.

This is possible with a few top line controls as i understand it.