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Michael Reynolds · June 2, 2001

I agree. I teach both systems, and there is no doubt UG is a much more powerful system, on the cad side. BUT Mastercam is MUCH more USER FREINDLY, and is just as powerful (or more so) than UG on the CAM side. If you know cnc machining, manual machining, and nc code, you can figure out most of the basic stuff in mcam. Not so with UG. By the way, has anyone checked out the layout.dll? Mcams gittin closer.......

Mike R.

3D Generator · June 2, 2001

Listen, a rat will learn the correct path through a maze after a number of attempts, when it finally does, it hasn't suddenly become intelligent, it has achieved the task by the use of mindless repitition.

Thats what the Mastercam tutorial books aim to do. Pummel strategys into the users head.

Dont get me wrong, yes Mastercam is good, but its creators probably underestimate the intelligence of its users by not providing in-depth learning material.

Michael Reynolds · June 2, 2001

3D, I agree with you. I love mastercam, it's a great cadCAM program, and, for me, its just fun to sit around at home at night and play with it, creating cool trinkets & things. But the learning books are either too simple (like they're aimed at 7th graders) or they're way to in depth (like the lin shu books). Thats just my opinion. For my students, I don't use the mcam tutorials, I make up my own, complete with explanations of WHY they're doing what their doing.

Again, don't misunderstand me, I love this program, but the learning materials are very weak.

On a related subject, I also have used UG cast, and I find it to be the same thing. Only sometimes, it's just plain WRONG.

Sorry if I hurt any feelings here...just my 2mm.

Mike R.

[This message has been edited by Michael Reynolds (edited 06-02-2001).]

beav700 · June 2, 2001

I agree with you about the tutorials that come with v8. If you want to learn the Mastercam the right way get a book from Scholars International Publishing Corp. The book is for version 7 ,but there is hardly any difference between v7 and v8.I use to run 7.2b and then got a job where thay have two seats of v8 and I didn't see any major differences , just couple of windows look diffrent but have the same commands.

I thought myself Mastercam from that book and highly recomended.

cadcam · June 2, 2001

Well are you a rat or machinist.

I think you are a machinist because if you put it the rat way you only learn what is there and will go no further.

As a mastercam user for a long time I know the books tell you only so much, But the software will do more then any of the books or the teachers will tell you.

Over the years I have made this software do things it says it can't & would give me error prompts.

I would just say ok & continue & get the result I wanted.

The book thing is a hard one, I wish to they had different levels of them from hard to beginner, that would help both the new & the old but for a beginner the training books have been pretty good to get you going.

So now that I have just about pissed every one off sorry.

This is a big thorn in my side with the mastercam & UG thing.

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[This message has been edited by cadcam (edited 06-03-2001).]

Kenneth Potter · June 2, 2001

You are right Sir. For the beginner or newbi who is clueless from the start. For them the current Mastercam manuals & tutorials are fine.For the advanced 2 & 3rd And somtimes 4th generation cadcam user the current manuals are Ho hum. Better that nothing but still, ho humm.

I too have had programming races in the same shop with others that use UG & Mastercam Kick the hell out them. I had them crying uncle !!!!!!! BUt the topic is Full thick loaded manuals full of all the IN depth S-%^&*.

Kenneth Potter

[This message has been edited by Kenneth Potter (edited 06-02-2001).]

3D Generator · June 2, 2001

to cadcam,yes a machinist!

Perhaps My initial point wasn't made 2 clearly.

I wasn't starting a UG versus Mastercam topic,it was more to do with the learning resources that are available to us.

I also use Powermill/Powershape,Edgecam and Surfcam, and yes Mastercam probably just shades the last two I mentioned, but only( in my opinion!! ) because a child could learn how to use it, and this is reflected in the learning materials made available to users.

To Micheal Reynolds--

What book do you refer to when you say (like the lin shu books). Where do you get them from?

Michael Reynolds · June 2, 2001

3D - beav700 posted the web site for these book up a little bit in this post. Scholars international. I made the comment that I wasn't fond of it, but I was refering to their book on V6, mabye the one on V7 is better.

Also, you mentioned that the learning resourses are scarce (good ones, anyway). I agree, like I said, I teach UG cam, and apart from cast, I haven't been able to find ANY books on UG. I will say that I had to go to St Lous for UG cam school, and they give you a book to follow in class. Actually, it was very good. BUT, now that they've changed versions, I can't get that book. They won't give it to you unless you spend 2 grand to go to thier school. With mcam, all I have to do is call them up, and they'll send me just about whatever I want AT NO CHARGE (education, you know). Mastercam is MUCH more freindly in that and most other respects.

Anyway, check out BEAV's reply for the web site.

C-ya!

Mike R.

cadcam · June 2, 2001

3D just food for thought I was not calling you a rat but calling you a machinist.

You are right you were not trying to pick a fight between the 2 but were stating about the books.

Now for the big? Here where are you located, what state or country.

Your profile shows nothing of you or the company you work for.

Just curies of what type of work you do.

So as I say hope I did not offend you.

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3D Generator · June 2, 2001

No offence at all,Im very thick skinned!!!

Im a software engineer, with emphasis on cad/cam/cae in Ireland.

Another point of interest concerns the next generation of CADCAM.At the moment a lot of it is Lab based, due to costs,but everyone knows it will change,The likes of UG,Catia and co. will be better prepared to accept incoming VR technology currently being developed.

In the future it wont be possible to drill pre-planned ideas into people,they will need to understand why,in order to develop and progress.Mastercam doesnt do itself any favors with its timid approach to manuals and learning.

s0l0seven · June 3, 2001

In my opinion as a student, the tutorials do lack an explanation on why you do what you do for the result. But you do retain the knowledge you gained from doing the tutorials, because it is experience gained through trial and error that helps you to retain that knowledge. Just like working at the same company for ten years. You know how it should be dun. But on the down side you may gain tunnel vision, only seeing one way of doing that task.

[This message has been edited by s0l0seven (edited 06-03-2001).]

gmenzies · June 3, 2001

in my opion the tutorials ( application giude) do a good job to get you started. the problems begin with the refined stuff . ie: surface normals, gap settings, sharp corner

problems, dealing with vertical walls.

using 2d sweeped when flowline fails . mastercam needs to get a advanced user type book out . Robert White put out two books on advanced surfacing and solids for cadkey . these types of books allowed a user to explore alternative ways of getting the job done . ug is probly a very good package , but so is work nc , delcam etc . the trick is to get the most out of the software your

boss has provided you with.

taking a mastercam course with guys from differant shops helped me see differant ways to do the job.

mabey "Dummies for mastercam" for all those silly questions you were afraid to ask .

cadcam · June 3, 2001

So what book is everyone using then? here is the book i have for V8.I just scanned the cover to show you the book.

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[This message has been edited by cadcam (edited 06-03-2001).]

cadcam · June 3, 2001

And it says its the same thing on the bottom of the book?

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Brendan O' Regan · June 3, 2001

Where it that book available from?. I am in Ireland and cannot find any training books for Mastercam

Kenneth Potter · June 3, 2001

AHahah

Now thats what i call a manual. You guys slay me . hehe real freakin funny

Kenneth Potter

cadcam · June 3, 2001

All right 3D. that must of just came out right after mine.

i will look for that one.

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[This message has been edited by cadcam (edited 06-03-2001).]

cadcam · June 3, 2001

Ruffmut go to the top of this forum and look under learning they sell the books on line.

hope this helps you.

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3D Generator · June 3, 2001

I think my Irish comrade will find the books are not value for money $182 US, including shipping to Ireland,come on.

[This message has been edited by 3D Generator (edited 06-04-2001).]

d0gFartz · June 3, 2001

What drama,i think this is the only post i ever read every single word

Brendan O' Regan · June 4, 2001

Cadcam.

We only got mastercam in at the start of the year so i am only just starting to learn how to use it.

Is that book Mill training tutorials for dummies V8 any good for begineers.

cadcam · June 4, 2001

Ruffmut, how do I tell you this?

The book cover you see is a copy of my book but the "For Dummies" I put there as a joke.

That book is really the one that you can order from this forum.

And I do suggest it for beginners.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.

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