5-axis

[SVO]

Hello.

One of our 2005 goals is to purchase a 5-axis machine. I was asked today if mastercam would handle it. My answer was absolutely. But that's about as much as I know about 5-axis. I'm currently using the mpmaster from this site with level 3, solids and maintenance. Other than training and a learning curve what are some of the things I can do to prepare or help to advise with the purchase of the machine. Good experiances or bad with certain brands? Will I need a differant post? Brand name or size hasn't been determined yet as it's still in the early stages. I'm just looking for any info or advice that any of you might have.

 

THank you, Dan

[gcode]

quote:

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I was asked today if mastercam would handle it

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Mastercam does 5 axis stuff very well.

The key is a good post. The generic 5 axis post

that ships with Mastercam can be modified to handle almost any 5 axis machine, but

trying to learn 5 axis Mastercam, a new 5 axis machine and modifying a 5 axis post all at once can be a very frustrating experience.

 

I would suggest buying a post from the pros.

The price may seem steep, but its not.

When you are just learning 5 axis having a post you can trust is pricelss.

 

If you don't trust the post, trouble shooting is impossible. You don't know if you're screwed up in Mastercam, or your machine setup is wrong or your post is putting out bad numbers.

 

Another thing I've found very helpful in 5 axis programming and post developement is gcode verification.

 

When you start working with toolpanes/ rotary axis and gage lenghts, verifying the nci file is not enough.

 

A toolpath can backplot and verify perfectly in Mastercam and be totaly wrong when posted.

Running the gcode through Vericut or Predator is the only way to be sure.

 

Once you've got a proven post and gcode verification that you trust, 5axis programming is a lot of fun.

[SVO]

Thanks gcode, all sounds like good advice. We will definetly be purchasing a 5-axis post for all the reasons you stated and then some. You said purchase a post from the "pros". Can you elaborate?

 

Dan

[gcode]

quote:

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You said purchase a post from the "pros". Can you elaborate

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I just meant to buy one from people who write them for a living. Your local dealer is a good place to start. You can also use the post

as a bargaining chip while you are negotiating

the machine purchase.

If you buy a common machine, the folks here at In House Solutions may have an "off the shelf" post ready to go.

[Greg Williams]

Dan,

 

We have a Mazak Variaxis 630 about a year old, I am very happy with it's performance and we have had no issues thus far. We use it for 1 off Automotive prototype work to +/-0.01mm. Worth noting is the fact that a tool length of 180mm is required to reach the centre of the C axis (Rotary table) when the A axis (Trunion) is at -90 degrees

[5 AX]

Camaix has a link at the bottom of the page, check them out! I have 3 of their posts and they all come with a machine simulator. Highly recomend.

[Bruce Caulley]

Dan,

We have a couple of variaxis as well. Nice machine, but we had some problems with the pallets falling off and accuracy when high speed machining. They are running sweet now though.

 

We also have several deckel maho dmu50's. These are an excellent machine with an outstanding heidenhein controller, BUT they have a lot of maintenance issues. We have 4 and it is not uncommon to only have 3 running at any one time.

 

As for posts I also would recommend buying one and having it tweeked to suit your needs.

 

There are a few different ways to go about programming these machines in mastercam but they are really only personal preference issues.

 

HTH

 

Bruce

[SVO]

Thank you for all the advise. You all have been very helpful.

 

Dan

[dolphin1]

bc10146

we have a variaxis 500 at our shop and we are having some probs with accuracy and finding the #'s for the offsets or should say why the numbers mazak provided dont seem to be right.i just started running this mach last month.

mostly having probs when laying over the A-axis.

 

have a tech comong next week to ball bar,any suggestions with this.

[Bruce Caulley]

Not quite sure what you mean with the offsets as I didn't end up getting any training on the variaxis when they turned up. I just do the CAM. The calibration wasn't that good and had to be re-set about a month after new.

 

Are you using a G61.1 dynamic offset? I am not sure if this works properly if you have a global shift in your offset table.

 

HTH

Bruce

[dolphin1]

im refering to the offsets to the center of rotation & distance from center of A to the pallet versus the nomenclature plates on the side of the machine.we have a difference,just got through running a probe prog to find the center of rotation for X&Y.then to find the center of rotation for A & distance from pallet to center of rotation.

then we ran a macro provideed from japan that uses the #'s from the probe to caculate the centers of everything and we found a difference of rotation when A is @ 0. & when A is @ -90..i now believe we are going to have the parameters changed.

 

as for g61.1 we are using that but we dont have g54.2 dynamic comp,maybe later.

thanks for your time.

Mike

[Tinny]

We have a variaxis 500 and I can say we have had nothing be hassle from it. I was assured that it was just a one off rotten apple, but reading the above I find that hard to belive. In just 18months we are on our third A-axis table, and fourth spindle. We also have problems with the centre of rotation, and the accuracy overall is poor, I wouldn't put a job on the machine with a tolerence of less than +/- 0.05mm. ( good job most of the stuff we do have broader limits ) The situation isn't helped by the poor support and the fact that a Mazak engineer did a G0 into a job and moved the spindle column back 3mm. We are thinking of buying more 5 axis machines, what would ppl suggest? Looking at a Maho DMU 50 evo.

 

To answer the original post we have a cimco post purchased from our re-seller and use Vericut to prove the code before sending to the machine. Expensive, but very powerful.

[Bruce Caulley]

Tinny,

The deckel DMU50 is an excellent machine, but, as I said earlier we have had maintenance issues. Maybe we don't do the sheduled stuff enough.

 

Anyway, I would recomend them only if you don't do a lot of simultaneous 5 axis. The 45 degree knee means that you get some VERY funky moves happening if you are swarfing something.

 

HTH

Bruce

[Tinny]

Bruce,

we tend to do mostly 3+2 moves. I went to see a Evo50 the other week. VERY nice m/c however when the table is 90deg up you tend to lose 155mm of the stroke of the z axis, so maybe it isn't for us. They have just brought out an indexing m/c ( EMU50?) it is just an indexer, no 5 axis moves, no through coolant, but it is really solid. All for £80,000!!

[Tinny]

BTW our Variaxis has dropped its pallet 3 times as well ( all by the same operator, I think he doesn't use the cover coolant and swarf builds up on the lifter )

[Tinny]

Dolphin,

we too had problems with the table and the centre of rotation in the A-axis 0-90deg, it was ok at 0deg and 90deg, but in between would move by 20 microns. The old A-axis before we had it changed was about 70 microns out.

[dolphin1]

well after 3 days we have pinned it down to errors in the a/c axis,was working on a part with .002 true pos and i finally hit it late tonight off by .000040.we ended up using 2 work offsets one for with the part @ a0. and another with it @ a-90..i know this isnt right but it worked for now or until mazak tech shows up next week.

on another note has anybody had prob's with the tool setting probe,im having to adj the tools -.0033 after setting them.

on droping the pallets we havent had that prob but i would say it can be a prob with chips building up.