should I buy Esprit?

[mkd]

As good as mastercam is and as great as X is for a one stop cad+cam solution, tool holder and collision detection are a big issue for my work. am I an ignorant idiot (with no formal training) or does the holder diameter for tool definition have no effect on backplot? If so, why is it there?

 

sorry for the subject line, just getting attention.

[jeff]

I use backplot as a visual reference.

If I want collision detection,I use verify.

Have you tried that instead of backplot?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Ask you reseller about Holder Checking. There are some things he/she may be at liberty to discuss that I am not.

[Brendan P]

I can...

Sounds to me like it may be coming to a theatre near you!!!

[SLJ]

The place I worked at 4 years ago had Esprit. We never did get it working as advertised. That was just after they made the transition from mainframe to PC. About half the picks were greyed out and everything was a work around. Don't know how it is now, but back then, it wasn't worth much to us. Talked to one of the guys there the other day and he said they dropped it because the maintenance had gotten so high and it still wasn't working like we were told it would.

[mkd]

As i've said before: this is a great forum!

 

James, thanks for giving me hope.

 

SLJ, I know a very strong Esprit contract guy. While he admits they lost some functionallity during the tranistion, it has been steadily improving. You should see it today.

 

Thanks ..again

[Mike Mattera - TFM]

Just sold 3 seats to a guy who is tired of being lied to and screwed over by Esprit.

 

Did you know if you had the Windows version of Esprit and wantedto get the Esprit X (the XP version) It was NOT covered under maintenance. You Had To Re-Buy The Package.

 

Mike Mattera

[MLewis]

We use Delmia Virtual NC (VNC) to verify our programs. It's pricey but we haven't had a machine crash since we started using it about 10 years ago. We program several thousand 3 and 5 axis parts a year. It verifies the G Code file so what you see is what you get on the machine!

 

http://www.delmia.com/gallery/pdf/DELMIA_VirtualNC.pdf

 

Vericut would be another option.

[ToolMan184]

Mike,

 

You are 100% correct. This happened to me, I now use MasterCam for most of programming. Switched over bout a year ago. Once I get my wire post tweaked in I will be 100% MC.

 

When Espirit W was alive, it was excellent. Now in MHO its junk.

 

Try to even talk to someone without maintenance, will not happen with Espirit.

[g huns]

quote:

---

Try to even talk to someone without maintenance, will not happen with Espirit.

---

Been there, done that. All I wanted to know was why the pos wouldn't install on a new pc. Needed a four axis wirepath real bad and the pc that had it loaded was long gone. Luckily a most generous forum member with MC wire got me hooked up and cuttin the same day.

[Randy Maynard]

Sounds to me like it you could use a seat of Mastercam Wire!

 

Mitch has been beta testing Wire in MR1. Now would be an excellent time to discuss this with your dealer... er, me!

[SLJ]

When I talked to the guy at the old shop, he said the maintenance was up to $14k for two seats of 4 axis mill and lathe, with one of them 5 axis lathe. Then he told me Exprit said it wouldn't handle they're Integrex, the reseller had been trying to build a post on his own for that. (For 3 years, with no luck) They dropped it

[mkd]

Well, i'm glad I asked the original question! Sounds like DP Tech has some issues.

 

SLJ,

My guy says Esprit will embarrass any other cam package when it comes to Multiaxis turning (mill/turn). He also does post building.

 

Any mill/turn guru's out there agree?

 

I'm not a Guru.

[g huns]

Way to work in a sales pitch Randy I'll be lucky to get them to fork over my maintainance$$$$ this year. Couple of guys just bought the place so the cash is a little tight for right now.

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

mkd

I have customers that need the holder collison also. What they do is draw the tool and holder as a custom tool.

[DG]

As far as collisons, Can't you use a safty zone? Then you have no worries. Or you can set backplot to show hold.

[mkd]

Jimmy, good sugguestion. I use that too, but it's very ineffecient compared to other software packages. thanks

 

DG,

Safety zones???

I'm listening..

 

Thanks guys

[DrewG]

I have 3 seats of Esprit 2005, one for basic 2D milling, one for advanced 3D milling, and one seat for our Nakamura Tome Super NTJ 9 axis mill/turn machine. I purchased Esprit within a year of purchasing four seats of Mastercam. I was promised Mastercam would have their MATTS software available to run the mill/turn machine, however as everyone knows, shortly afterwards, Mastercam dropped, or shelved the program. I did not want to use several different CAM systems in my shop, so we stopped using Mastercam, and switched over to Esprit. Before doing so, we tried GIBBS and Edgecam for several months each, as well as paying for training in order to be able to make an intelligent decision.

Well, as with all CAM software, there are the "goods and the bads". I won't bore everyone with a two or three page post, so I won't go into detail on each item, rather I'll just list them. If anyone needs more information, feel free to email me with any questions. I'll be happy to reply to your email.

 

"GOODS":

1)The interface is the best we've seen.

 

2)Editing posts is very easy and depending upon the changes, can be done quickly.

 

3)Simulation is very good to excellent for most machines, however the mill/turn machine simulation ranges from non-existent(for our Nakamura) to excellent(Mazak's/Mori's).

 

4)Tech Support is direct to Esprit--NOT through a reseller. We found this to be alot more accurate than when we used Mastercam and had to deal with a reseller.

 

5)If your familiar with VBA, Esprit is very easy to create custom cycles using VBA.

 

6)Esprit is extremely user defined. In other words, the user has great control as to how he or she would like to set up the interface, or program. We found GIBBS to be the most limited in this area.

 

7)Esprit is stable for the most part with "crashing" only happening during complex surfacing.

 

 

"BADS":

1)Maintenance fees are a bit high, and the fact that new releases are not issued yearly, AND ESPRIT does not issue service packs to fix bugs, makes paying for maintenance seem expensive.

 

2)When a new release is issued, if there's a bug, your stuck until the next release, and sometimes even several releases.

 

3)Esprit added a new Solidworks feature in their 2005 release. Basically you should be able to go directly from Solidworks into Esprit, and Esprit would recognize the part features. If you make a change to a part in Solidworks, you should be able to open the part in Esprit and update the toolpath(obviously it depends upon the degree of change). This never worked, and from what I hear, it still doesn't work in the new 2006 release coming out in a few weeks. This is a MAJOR problem. See next item.

 

4)Making changes or updates to a part, is the absolute worst we've seen in any CAM system. You are forced to place the new model over the old model, and than go about making the toolpath changes. The reason this is such a problem in Esprit compared to other CAM systems is that toolpath is created from features or chains that you have to create on the solid model(for all 2D milling and turning). In other CAM systems, toolpath is created directly from the solid model. For example, in Esprit, you must create a chain feature for every, hole, pocket, OD, etc.. So if you have a part with say 5-1.00 holes, you must create a chain for each hole. Now lets say the model changes, and the holes are now 5-.950 holes. In most CAM systems, you would just bring the new model in, and hit a button to update the toolpath. Not in Esprit. You now have to bring the new model in, orient it correctly, and than create a new feature or chain around all 5 new holes. Than you have to go back and delete the old features and toolpath.

This is a very basic example. But think how cumbersome and difficult this is if you have a part that has to keep being tested and updated, or if the part has major changes. For alot of parts, you would find it's quicker in Esprit to start completely over again, rather than trying to bring the new model in and making updates to the toolpath.

 

5)Open pocket toolpath's take alot of time to create, and are NOT efficient.

 

6)Even though Esprit is a CAM system, it is terrible to "draw, or design" in. Even the most basic things you might want to draw, are either impossible, or would take a long time compared to most other CAM systems.

 

7)The mill/turn package is very difficult to learn, and takes a very, very long time to become proficient. Both GIBBS and Edgecam are much easier and quicker to learn.

 

8)No "Plunge Mill" cycles.

 

9)Esprit advertises 5-axis toolpaths, however it is extremly limited. In fact their own tech guys call it "five axis light". If you do any five axis milling, or mill/turning, don't even think about Esprit.

 

10)Esprit offers absolutely NO set-up sheets what so ever.

 

These are just a few of each of the "goods and bads" we've encountered using Esprit. Because we are not a job shop where we work from prints, or are supplied solid models, we are constantly striving to improve our CAD/CAM solutions. We design and manufacture our own parts and assemblies, and are constantly making updates to our parts as the months/years go by trying to improve them. We are starting to add 5 axis parts to our inventory and therefore are in the market again. We recently began looking at UG NX4, and have demo'd it for a few weeks. From what we've experienced so far, UG looks to be the best all around solution for our needs. Because UG is a complete CAD/CAM system with the ability to constantly update our models and toolpath without any loss of data through translations, we are probably going to move in this direction. Because UG simulates directly from the NC code, it is more accurate than any other simulation available in any CAM system. What you see is exactly what you get.

If anyone has any questions on anything I posted above, please email me, and I will get back to you ASAP.