O/T Backup Media

[Matthew]

I took a trip to the local business depot and future shop and they don't sell tape backup drives anymore, but mentioned that people are backing up to DVD's now, since they hold 4.7gb of data, and can be formatted to work like a disk so you can drag & drop files to them.

 

I was just curious what type of media people are using and why they chose it.

[Bullines]

It all depends on what you're backing up. For data files, a CD-RW drive is probably the most cost-effective solution. On a larger scale, a RAID configuration could handle entire drives more quickly than any tape drive could. DVD-RAM drives are another option, albeit still expensive at the moment. In a server environment, network replication is nice if you have dedicated systems for it. You have plenty of choices. It's just a matter of finding the right one for your needs (and bank account ).

[Zero]

We use zip discs here. I know that they don't hold much compared to a cd or dvd, but I've had cd's go bad on me not only loosing the important files on the cd but causing the BSOD if I even tried to access the cd. Not a scratch on it, just went bad. I've got a pretty big hard drive to store files on and when I store up about a gig I'll zip them up and send to a zip disc. After I've had the files for about6-12 months (depending on the model, some make it to production quicker than others and some not at all) I erase them and re-use the zip disk for new files. Never had a zip disk go bad on me(yet......).

 

[ 03-01-2002, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: Zero ]

[KCollins]

In my opinion a raid cage with drive duplicators is the way to go. It's a lot more expensive than zip, or even DVD writeables, but data transfer rates are a lot faster. Once it's installed you never have to worry about it too...

[Tony]

Tape on the network

I zip locally on whole projects like

(IBM 514,515,516) etc. as well.

A virus got into are server once already and there was awaiting line for IT service to retrieve files.

 

So I save to My hard drive and Zip and Tape on the network .(Paranoid or what)!

[mold100]

Everything here is on a sever,backed up by a server,backed up in a safety storage mainframe.A little overkill but we had a bad crash 2 years ago,the main frame only gets linked to save and then disconnected.A few years ago i had to use colorada back-up,that took about a year to save anything,it was super slow.Most files are really big.

[Matthew]

I have about 3 GB of data that I need to backup. I'm thinking I might go with the DVD writer. A lot of that data is also older stuff that I probably won't use. I could archive that and then the amount I'm backing up every day or other day would be a lot less. Basically, the body shop next door to me got broken into monday night. It got me a little worried. I would have had a problem if they got in here and took my computer. From what I found, the price of a DVD Writer would pay for itself if it saved me 2 days of having to get new data and reproduce data from memory. The problem I see with a CD writer is that I'd have to switch disks... I'd rather let the backup run in the wee hours....

 

Thanks for the comments!

[mold100]

Sorry I dont know this,how is storing to a dvd writer differ from a cd writer,is there more storage space?

[Matthew]

The one I have looked at (HP DVD Writer DVD 100i) stores 4.7gb.

[Bullines]

quote:

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Sorry I dont know this,how is storing to a dvd writer differ from a cd writer,is there more storage space?

---

CD-R and CD-RW range in capacity from 650MB to 800MB

 

The DVD-RAM spec is 2.6GB per side for a total of ~5GB. The DVD+RW spec is 3GB per side for a total of 6GB.

[Charles Davis]

We're on a network, and back up two ways.

 

I drop backups of important directories on another computer: the theory being its very unlikely two computers would crash at the same time. (we use anti-virus).

 

We also back up to CD. I don't recommend using the drag and drop function for burning a CD, because those seem to be less compatible. Also, use a CD-R, not a CD-RW for backups (more reliable). At $.50 or less a piece: bargain.

 

Check out the new "pocket" size CD's. They are cheaper, smaller, and hold 185 MB.

 

I have NEVER EVER had a CD go bad.

[Roger Martin from CNC Software]

All, you have scratched a pet peeve of mine. So here is my $.02

 

I've been AMAZED over the years that people don't backup!

Your larger business usually has a network person that will handle

this - IF you let them know what data you need backed up.

But, in too many small to medium size shops I've seen nonexistent backup

procedures. I've seen shops loose big $$$$, all because of a crash or stolen PC.

PC replacement cost is minor - it is the DATA lost that will kill you.

 

There is nothing quite like the feeling of coming into work in the morning

and looking at that blank spot were your PC used to be.

I am talking from personal experience here! (This was not @ CNC)

They probably only took 3 PCs with montitors and an HP Laser printer,

because they did not have enough room to carry them all away.

 

Charles had a good point about backing up some data to another PC.

Quick, easy and cheap. (I do it myself) But this is NOT a complete solution.

See above: "Your PC walks out the door."

 

Tape is still used everyday on networks for backing large amounts of data.

 

If you are looking for Tape/RAID/CD-RW/DVD solutions,

check out -> www.megahaus.com

(I get $nothing$ for this endorsement.)

From my experience these guys know what they are doing.

 

Some tape details (there are MANY tape options)

 

(I used one of these Sony 7000 series on the network)

Sony 7000-series SCSI 4mm DDS-2 DAT Internal Tape Drive - $439.00

uses 'DDS-2' type tape media, 4-8GB capacity - $7.00

 

Sony 9000-series SCSI DDS-3 DAT Internal Tape Drive - $575.00

uses 'DDS-3' type tape media, 12-24GB capacity - $12.00

 

These are internal SCSI devices (external configurations available for approx.

$70.00 more), so you must have a SCSI interface on your PC, or you can add

a quality SCSI interface card for around $200.00

 

These 4mm DAT drives cost more than many of the other tape drive types,

BUT they are fast and the cost of the tape media is comparitivly low.

Yes, you can get Travan type tape drives for around $200.00, but the

tapes will cost you $30.00 - $40.00 each to achieve the same capacity.

If your tapes are expensive, so you only use one that is always in the PC

you have NOT gained anything! Don't laugh, I've seen people do this.

 

I'd like to address a couple quotes from previous postings...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

In my opinion a raid cage with drive duplicators is the way to go.

It's a lot more expensive than zip, or even DVD writeables, but data

transfer rates are a lot faster. Once it's installed you never have

to worry about it too...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

RAIDs can be a good choice for data protection.

I used a RAID setup when I used to be the Network Guy (not @ CNC).

If setup properly, it can save the day when a hard drive crashes.

But if this is all you do, you do NOT have an adequate backup.

See above: "Your PC walks out the door."

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem I see with a CD writer is that I'd have to switch disks...

I'd rather let the backup run in the wee hours....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

IMHO,

This is a good choice if your are not trying to backup more than will fit

on a single CD every day. I used an HP brand CD-RW to back up certain critical

files that changed daily on the network. (these files were also backed to tape)

It was very easy to setup a couple BAT file (or CMD file for you XP users)

and using the Windows Task Scheduler to run these command files in the

middle of the night. This worked very well for me. I used quality CD-RW

equipment and media. Like Charles, "I have NEVER EVER had a CD go bad".

Quality CD-RW drive will run you around $150.00 Yes, I know you've seen

ads for $89.00 You get what you pay for.

DVD recorders are definitely up an up and coming option.

Cost is still around $500.00 for an internal drive and the media

about $15.00 per disk.

 

Since you've read this far, you may have noticed that I backed up data to ->

1> Tape

2> to another computer hard drive on the network

3> to a CD-RW

4> and used a RAID setup on the primary PC

Extreme you say? Maybe. But when they just HAD to have that data,

they were very happy that I could retrieve it.

 

Thanks for reading this far...

One last point -> Backup your Mastercam Post Processors !!!

NOT just the *.PST files. You ant the *.TXT for the post and some (special)

posts have a *.PSB file also.

If you are not sure of which files, get everything out of your

POSTS directories.

 

I know of one place that lost the only copy of their post processor.

(? you only have ONE copy!?!)

and shut down the CNCs in the shop for an entire weekend. They had a super

rush job that WAS supposed to ship out by Tuesday. Needless to say, they did

not make delivery (can you say "Just in Time" manufacturing?) and were out

of the loop next time this customer put a large job out for bids.

 

With business down for many, spending time and money on this stuff may

not seem top priority. But, if something *bad* happens, how much is that

going to really cost your business? Probably more than you think!

 

Didn't mean to write a book here, but this stuff is IMPORTANT!

 

Roger

[Bullines]

An offsite backup, (be it tape, CD, DVD or whatever) is a safe way to go.

[Matthew]

I went out and got a DVD writer this morning. (Business depot, 10 day return, can't go wrong!). So far, it looks OK. I made a batch file to xcopy certain directories. When you format the DVD, it has a check for compression, which seems to allow me to get more data on the disk (Haven't maxed it out yet though, I'm going to try the entire hard drive in a couple of days, about 10 GB).

 

Bullines: When you mentioned 3GB a side, for 6GB total, is that with the compression? All the discs (DVD-RW) I see advertise 4.7gb, and I've seen some advertise approx 9gb. Is a different drive required for 9gb discs? Another thing I need to look at before my 10 days are up, is whether or not I can restore this data using a standard DVD-ROM drive, or do I need another HP DVD writer? I might send their tech support an email tomorrow morning.

 

Thanks for all the replies! Lots of good information!

 

Have a good weekend.