Freelancing?

[Ron_Roy]

Howdy All,

My contract is up at the end of the month and I was wondering if it is possible to make a living programming from home?

If so, how do charge the customer - an hourly rate or on the entire job?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Ron Roy

[Jerry Bichsel]

It really depends on what you mean by "make a living".

If you are talking about having it be your sole source of income and you're single, that is different than sole source of income with a family.

Can you make money, yes.

Are you the first one to be cut off when the economy slows, often yes.

You do have many benefits from working contract/self employed/freelance.

As to how to charge, I work some projects/clients on an hourly fee, others as a project cost. It depends a lot on variables that you will need to decide based on relationships and knowledge of your customer and your abilities.

Good luck.

[Kenneth Potter]

With out going into in depth detail. I Charge the customer base on the situation at hand & how they run there show on the shop floor. A lot of foot work will be a great part of how you get customers. Try to interact only with the Shop owner ( DA Money Man) . Short run job got ta have it yesterday ------->NAIL THE SUCKER & drag the program ((((((slowly)))))out or your computer before you hand it over to them. J/K

 

If I see that there making a killing on the job im programming charge as much as you can get away with.

 

If its a one of a kind or small lots,then back off the price a bit. Dont sell yourself cheap or youll gonna get screwed in the short & long term.

[Jerry Bichsel]

I have to somewhat disagree with you, Kenneth.

 

I like to turn the work for my customers as quickly as possible. This does several things:

 

1. Shows that I am capable of providing quality work faster than anyone they have working for them or had do it before.

 

2. Shows that they really are getting value for their money spent, which more often than not, generates more repeat business.

 

3. Shows the power of the software in the hands of an experienced user.

 

4. Allows me to get onto the next project to make even more money form them or another client. Or it frees up time that I can spend with my family, go fishing, hunting, skiing, etc.

 

If one slows down just to drag out a project in hopes of making more money on just that project, eventually it catches up. The client will eventually find out somehow that it can be done faster and that he has been abused. Then that client goes elsewhere. I know I would if that were being done to me.

 

Back when I was a tooling manager I had people try it. It didn't last long and they never got another chance to cash a check from us.

[Chips Ahoy]

I quote many jobs out and when I get the quote back I usually have questions on the programming time they are charging us because normally I know how fast I can program it. These are usually repeat jobs for us but cheaper to get done outside because of overhead cost. So, you better watch what you charge for programming or it could get you no more jobs after the first quote you give. Rick

[Kenneth Potter]

Point well taken Jerry

 

But every machine shop is ran differently so my prices change accordingly in the situations I have to confront. Repeat bussiness becomes a problem for me when the customer wakes up & Finally breaks down & buys there own software.Even then i get repeat calls cause the dont want to spend the money for a full time programmer. I for one dont let them see how I program or use the software. They get the program & documetaion only & thats all the get.I hang around till they get good parts off & make the minor adjustments as needed. Then i,m gone$$$$.

I,m not there to train ,give free demos or sell software.

 

Kenneth Potter

[Jerry Bichsel]

Kenneth,

I agree that each shop is operated differently and I too, adjust my rates/quotes accordingly.

 

But I also train and try to get Mastercam sales. I have no problem with answering questions on how to do such-and-such in Mastercam, how to configure it, etc.

 

I have several customers that I have been working with for over five years that have upgraded, have programmers and still use me. I figure the more they learn the more opportunity they have to grow, become more efficient and provide more opportunity for me. So far it is working well.

[PROG_MAN_DO]

Kenneth's name certainly won't be on my list of programmer's if we need some work done. Sounds pretty selfish & insecure to me. I hope you change your outlook, otherwise your reputation will catch up to you and nobody will want to work with you. If we didn't share info we wouldn't be where we are today. Good luck

 

Jerry is right on the money however. I would hire him..

 

Russell

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Kenneth has a point though about getting things done quickly. If you spend time showing what you are doing, why you are doing it, things begin to take exponentially longer and thus profitability goes down and he then has to take on more work to make the same amount of money. That's not fair to him is it? I know, I'm one of those guys that is always excited to show people what the software can do and how to do it, that's the reason I teach. Some people are protective of their hard earned knowledge some are not, you can't fault them for that.

 

JM2C

[Sem001]

When freelancing how do you guarantee your work? Whathappens if you scrap have a mold, die, model etc.... Who's pocket does that come out of? That's my biggest fear about freelancing not that I doubt my work but there is always a chance of human error no one's perfect and if I scrap something early on in my business am I gonna be out of house and home.

[Jerry Bichsel]

Everyone makes mistakes and no software is perfect.

 

1. When you quote a job you need to have a disclaimer for what you are/are not responsible for.

 

2. Double and triple check your work BEFORE you give it to the client. Just remember, sometime something will slip past.

 

3. Insist that the client review the geometry, backplot, verify, NC code, what ever they can BEFORE the run anything.

 

Most clients will understand that mistakes happen. Most are good about how they handle it and what they can do on their side to minimize the effects, i.e. having an operator at the machine with their finger resting on the STOP button.

 

If errors are found in my program, I redo it at no charge.If the errors are serious enough, I will credit an agreed amount (only done this twice) or refund the full amount (never had to) if extreme.

 

The best thing you can do is let your client know that you stand behind your work. I once even went to a clients shop and ran my programs and some of theirs on their VMC when one operator was sick and another quit. No charge.

 

It builds loyalty and respect, both ways.

[Kenneth Potter]

quote:

---

Kenneth's name certainly won't be on my list of programmer's if we need some work done. Sounds pretty selfish & insecure to me. I hope you change your outlook, otherwise your reputation will catch up to you and nobody will want to work with you.

---

I understand your statment and I'm not offended All shop floor "real world" environments aren't those nice clean well run profesional establishments. Like i said before I adjust my prices & personal dealings to that environment. I,m not a dealer/reseller and dont promote one software over another to a customer I'm not there for that. Selfish & insecure ......Ouch

 

[ 04-14-2002, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Kenneth Potter ]

[JAMMAN]

Russell-

As I have been quoted before- we can gain much from all forum member's OPINIONS which is each individuas rights and we try not to insult or belittle fellow members. Opinions all come with reason, your's and his.

DAD

[Simtech]

We do a bit of contract programming from time to time and the basis of the jobs taken depend on the amount of incertainties of the job.

 

First job for a new customer, we charge an initial set-up charge, this takes care of posts, documentation and operator training/explanations of how to set-up the job.

 

When quoting, we normally add 25-50% extra for all those little modifications that are required to get the job done.

 

If possible, we quote an hourly price, this way you don't work for nothing. The customers want an overall price.

 

We limit our responsibility to the amount of the quote. Like said before in another post, sometimes we might have to discount because of problems (never happened) and at the worst, credit the job done (never happened). At least, the customers knows this in advance.

 

Luc

[Mick]

I agree about not letting people watch over your shoulder. I did that once. Was working from home, and had a guy come around to watch a job being done. (I was none the wiser) And two months later he was out on his own, doing contract programming, and trying to nudge in on my customers. Never again...

[Jerry Bichsel]

Mick,

I agree about not letting people look over my shoulder when I'm programming at home. Rarely has a client ever come to my home other than to pick up a disk, CD, setup sheets, shop drawings, I design also).

 

But if I am programming at a clients site, then by all means they have the right to watch. However, if their questioning begins to interfere I will ask them to please let me concentrate and I will be glad to go over anything they want once I am finished. Never had a problem with that.

[Kenneth Potter]

Mick your comment

 

quote:

---

had a guy come around to watch a job being done. (I was none the wiser) And two months later he was out on his own, doing contract programming, and trying to nudge in on my customers. Never again...

---

You help make my point & folks those games can & will get worse! Avoid the games & politics.

 

If your on the customers sight & programming from there computer then thats a different ball game. They have a right to see whats going on " dont promote that ". If I,m working from a customers box & they leave me alone.....fine. But if the spy game look over your shoulder scam starts... oops. Out pops my laptop.

 

End of story

 

[ 04-15-2002, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: Kenneth Potter ]

[Mick]

Yes, absolutely. I certainly wouldn't let that happen again. He didn't get very far anyway. He ended up touting another CAM package, and didn't end up with much work.

But since then, a customer never sees me toolpathing. They only ever view a model, or are there to pick up data.

[levelh]

Listen to Jerry Bichsel.

He sounds like a professional.

I agree with his attitude.

You will never get rich unless you love what you do.

H