5-axis setup out of the box

[nbet]

Hello all,

 

We've got X3 and are trying to use it to do some work on a 5-axis boring machine. Using the unmodified MILL 5 - AXIS TABLE - HEAD VERTICAL.MMD machine definition and the GENERIC FANUC 5X MILL.PST post I am seeing some things I don't understand. I have searched and read postings here and other online documentation but there's a lot of new things in the MCX series that I'm still learning.

 

Please see the file "5-axis setup.zip" on the Mastercam FTP, ftp://www.mastercam-cadcam.com/Mastercam_...X3_Files/5-axis setup.zip

It's a large file because it includes fixture geometry which is relevant since it shows what I am assuming coordinates should look like when they are 'home'.

 

A few questions I have are;

 

The part and fixture appear to be oriented in Mastercam as they are oriented on our mill when rotary axes are at zero, i.e. B=0, C=0 (we have a dual axis rotary table).

Why does the posted output show B and C axes when the machine definition shows an A and B axis?

Why don't I see changes to B and C in my posted output when I alter the machine definition of A and B?

Why does the machine definition show A axis on the mill bed and B axis on the spindle (I expected them to both be on the bed as our dual axis rotary table is mounted to the bed)?

Why do the Properties of the B axis indicate that it's an A axis in machine coordinates but with a B axis label?

 

My real problem is that the posted code shows correct B axis angles (B-90) but C axis angles that are 90 degrees off what I need and I can't figure out what the right way is to deal with it. Modifying the post seems like it should be the last option and that there's something I just haven't oriented correctly.

 

Isn't technology great!

[crazy^millman]

Honestly I would get my dealer in there and have them help you get this straighted out. There is so much to cover here I could spend the next 3 hours typing my response, and I type about 40 to 60 words a minute.

 

HTH

[nbet]

We have spoken with the dealer and are not getting much further than what I've described above. They seem to be interested in a post modification which doesn't seem necessary to me. There's nothing strange or non-standard about the machine setup that we have so I can't see why the MCX 5-axis default post and machine definition won't work.

 

Can you at least venture some answers to the questions about A,B,C and how they're defined in the machine definition? These are the default, from MC values.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I'll take a crack at one...

quote:

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Why does the posted output show B and C axes when the machine definition shows an A and B axis?

---

In your MD, on the individual Axes, when you open them up, you have the ability to change the address. Usually it's setup as A=A, B=B, etc..... Change the address. You'll need to know a little about your machine to get these correct.

[kccadcam]

quote:

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There's nothing strange or non-standard about the machine setup that we have so I can't see why the MCX 5-axis default post and machine definition won't work.

---

I have never seen a 5-axis machine that was "standard" or "not strange"

Every 5-axis machine I've ever dealt with has some wacky quirk to tweak in....

The generic 5-axis post is just that,,, "generic"

There are too many 5-axis combinations to make a one-for-all post that will be error-free out of the box..

 

JM2C

[crazy^millman]

quote:

---

Isn't

knowing how to use

technology great!

---

Fixed for you.

 

Well good luck there is tons of knowledge on this forum about this topic do a search and figure it out.

 

Here comes the I want to see you struggle remark from (Fill in the Blank). Nope it is a matter of sweat equity.

[Colin Gilchrist]

+1 to what Ron said. There is no such thing as a "standard" 5 axis machine. You'll need to pay someone to get this setup for you, or you'll need to spend a lot of time and personal effort to figure it out. There is always a relationship between the post processor and the Machine/Control definition files. For example, there isn't any logic built into the generic 5 axis posts for pre-winding the C axis, but it is pretty easy for someone who knows the MP language to add it in.

[nbet]

Thanks all for the comments, sincerely. But I did take the time to try and answer my questions through some trial and error and reading. I also took the time to ask some very specific questions and to upload a file.

 

Out out of all your responses only one person attempted an answer to one question, and CNC Apps Guy is already talking about tweaking when I was asking about the untweaked, out of the box values that MCX3 is producing! I know these are all individual cases with their own specific tweaks, but what I've pointed out is that I've not tweaked anything and am just trying to understand the output I see. If I can understand the stock MCX3 behaviour then I hope be able to tweak from there if needed.

 

Here's a simple question, does anybody know what actual make/model the above mentioned machine def and post would work correctly on, without tweaks?

 

Thanks again.

 

Willing Student

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

No make or model that I can think of right out of the box... now with that said, a Fanuc 310i Controlled CMS Gantry type router I made some M-Codes added into the tool changes and 4/5 Axis positioning/feed moves would probably be the closest I've seen to getting something that will run the machine but... like was stated by several well respected forum members, every 5-Axis machine is different. Even machines one serial number apart from the same builder are different on occasion. Sorry to drop that on you but unfortunately it's a reality sometimes. As an AE for a Machine Tool Dealer, I've seen it more times than I care to remember, even on machines not nearly as complex as a 5-Axis Machine.

[iowajim62]

quote:

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but what I've pointed out is that I've not tweaked anything and am just trying to understand the output I see. If I can understand the stock MCX3 behaviour then I hope be able to tweak from there if needed.

---

You will need to learn and use the Debugger. When you go to post your program you will see the option to use the debugger tool. Go to the ftp site at the top of the page labeled cadcam's FTP Site and scroll to the X3 Docs Folder, in there you will see the Post Parameter Ref and Debugger User Guide. Download those and any others you would like and start reading.

 

Good Luck and HTH

[MLS]

quote:

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Here's a simple question, does anybody know what actual make/model the above mentioned machine def and post would work correctly on, without tweaks?

---

Keep in mind that even two of the exact same machine may be set up in a number of different scenarios ESPECIALLY with a 5-axis. Different shops have different needs and the machine manufacturers have to accomodate the needs.

 

It's just not that black and white as plug and play...

 

The only thing I noticed was that you said you were using a head/table def when you have a table/table machine. I don't know squat about Mastercam posts, but that caught my eye. Is there a table/table 5ax machine def?

[kccadcam]

Looking at your file...

I assume the spindle is horizontal??

Your origin should be the center pivot point of both axis. (which I assume is down below the center of your fixture)

"B" is tilt and "C" is table rotation correct?

 

Look here in your post:

(this is the correct settings for a vertical Matsuura table-table 5-axis MAM72-63)

code:

---

 # --------------------------------------------------------------------------

# 5 Axis Rotary Settings

# --------------------------------------------------------------------------

#Assign axis address

str_pri_axis "C"

str_sec_axis "A"

str_dum_axis "B"

 

#Toolplane mapped to top angle position strings

str_n_a_axis "A"

str_n_b_axis "C"

str_n_c_axis "B"

 

#Misc. String settings

sopen_prn "(" #String for Open Parenthesis "("

sclose_prn ")" #String for Close Parenthesis ")"

sextnc$ NC #String for program extension

 

#Machine rotary routine settings

mtype : 0 #Machine type (Define base and rotation plane below)

#0 = Table/Table

#1 = Tilt Head/Table

#2 = Head/Head

#3 = Nutator Table/Table

#4 = Nutator Tilt Head/Table

#5 = Nutator Head/Head

 

head_is_sec : 1 #Set with mtype 1 and 4 to indicate head is on secondary

 

#Preferred setup is pri. zero matches sec. zero/direction

#Zero machine and determine the planes perp. to axis rotations

#These plane combinations are valid:

#Primary plane XY XZ YZ

#Secondary or XZ XY XY

#Secondary YZ YZ XZ

 

#Primary axis angle description (in machine base terms)

#With nutating (mtype 3-5) the nutating axis must be the XY plane

rotaxis1$ = -vecy #Zero

rotdir1$ = vecx #Direction

 

#Secondary axis angle description (in machine base terms)

#With nutating (mtype 3-5) the nutating axis and this plane normal

#are aligned to calculate the secondary angle

rotaxis2$ = vecz #Zero

rotdir2$ = vecy #Direction

 

#NOTE: Use of 'top_map' requires the dealer match the

# above settings below. These must match initial settings!!!

p_nut_restore #Postblock, restores original axis settings

result = updgbl(rotaxis1$, "vecy")#Zero

result = updgbl(rotdir1$, "vecx")#Direction

result = updgbl(rotaxis2$, "vecz")#Zero

result = updgbl(rotdir2$, "vecy")#Direction

---

Assign axis address is where you set which letter comes out.

 

HTH

[nbet]

Thanks for all your pointers.

 

So, for future readers, here is what I have found to obtain correct output for a vertical mill with a dual axis rotary addon (at B=0, C=0 the rotary table points upward toward the spindle).

 

Most of my questions were not aswerable in the case of this 5-axis problem. The machine definition in MCX3 is not used in the post. In order to affect rotation axes, offset, and titles, changes must be made in the post. Maybe this is because the posts are encrypted?

 

The text below is what I ended up with to obtain the correct angles, signs, and letter designations (using the GENERIC FANUC 5X MILL.PST).

 

#Primary axis angle description (in machine base terms) Must be the rotary table, posts as my C axis.

#With nutating (mtype 3-5) the nutating axis must be the XY plane

rotaxis1$ = vecx #Zero

rotdir1$ = -vecy #Direction

 

#Secondary axis angle description (in machine base terms) Must be the tilting table, posts as my B axis.

#With nutating (mtype 3-5) the nutating axis and this plane normal

#are aligned to calculate the secondary angle

rotaxis2$ = vecz #Zero

rotdir2$ = -vecx #Direction

 

#NOTE: Use of 'top_map' requires the dealer match the

# above settings below. These must match initial settings!!!

p_nut_restore #Postblock, restores original axis settings

result = updgbl(rotaxis1$, "vecx")#Zero

result = updgbl(rotdir1$, "-vecy")#Direction

result = updgbl(rotaxis2$, "vecz")#Zero

result = updgbl(rotdir2$, "-vecx")#Direction