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Guest CNC Apps Guy 1

quote:

I've seen high quality
POLISHED SHANK
endmills being pulled out of a shrinkfit holder during heavy sidemilling.

There. Fissed it for ya. wink.gifbiggrin.gif

 

I've NEVER seen a ground shank tool (that was the right size) come out of a shrink holder. I've seen u/s tools come out once or twice in 15 years.

 

Your design is different from that Raptors. It's nearly identical to Technigrip's though according to their patent (floating dovetail clamps with a locating pin). I'm not sayin; I'm just sayin. biggrin.giftongue.gif

 

Raptors won't replace Technigrips, and vise verse. They both have a niche IMHO. I always look at the application above all else. I'm not loyal to one over another.

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quote:

Your design is different from that Raptors. It's nearly identical to Technigrip's though according to their patent (floating dovetail clamps with a locating pin). I'm not sayin; I'm just sayin.

Actually its a hybrid. The back are not floating, they are fixed. I just wanted them replaceable made out of hardened steel, instead of 70751

 

sayin I'm just! tongue.gif

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Guest CNC Apps Guy 1
tongue.gif

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I have never had an end mill pull out of a shrinkfit holder, or had a rigidity problem....plenty of trouble with collets, though...

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quote:

C60U? Don't you mean C600U. The C60U has not yet been released.

Sorry, I stand corrected. We have C400U's down in production and we have C40u's here in the TR. We were given a quote for a c60u when we sent out for bids to replace a vmc w/ 4 axis. I can't say what the quote was, so don't ask. (see previous post)

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U have a hermle C400U ?

Are u sure?

 

bye

garf

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Guest CNC Apps Guy 1

Got Big Plus? biggrin.gif

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quote:

U have a hermle C400U ?

Are u sure?

I guess it should read C600U.

 

C400U doesn't exist.

 

So far Hermle have build C20, C30, C40, C42, C50, C60, C500, C600, C800 and C1200.

 

I know that they are working on a new smaller model. Below C20 in size.

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quote:

Got Big Plus?

No, but you can get your Matsuura with HSK-A63. Problem solved smile.gif

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Thanks for the correction again. I'm lucky to spell my name right know with all the allergy meds I am taking.

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Once again thank you all for the outstanding info and replies.

After all this talk and careful calculations on our budget they decided to go the cheapest route with a HASS VF-6TR.the HASS rep. is coming by tomorrow to discuss some detail before we commit to it. With a Mastercam license Mastercam X Mill Level 3, Mastercam X Solids, and Mastercam X Five Axis. My biggest worry now is some good verification software and the post.

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quote:

I beat that the prototype is being assembled at the moment.


Thats right. u can see the prototype of a c60u working on the Hermle

open house. The movements from the big swiveling rotary table

(dia 1350mmx1100mm) are very impressive.

 

quote:

I know that they are working on a new smaller model. Below C20 in size.


mic, u are very well informed!

I had a very interesting talk with a Hermle guy from the pratical training.

He tell me about a new line (HSC) below to equal the C20 in size.

I said to him i know that already. For a second he looks a little puzzled. smile.gif

 

I carried away a few new printed brochures. Maybe

they put it on the website after the open house.

In the brochure for the mill/turn-line i read about

a new heidenhain control TNC 635. I never heard about it. Do u know about it?

 

 

bye

garf

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quote:

a new heidenhain control TNC 635. I never heard about it. Do u know about it?


Not yet, but I guess Heidenhain must have developed something new for Hermle because none of the current TNC line controls supports millturn machine. Only the Heidenhain MillPLUS does but that control is build exclusively for DMG ( FD machines )

 

I'm looking forward to hear more about these Hermle HSC machines. Did the Hermle guy tell you anything else about them? Linear drives perhaps?

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You definately get what you pay for. Here is an example. I just got a job up and running. I tried it on two Fadal 5-axis machines and the parts came out like crap. Then our Kitamura opened up so I reprogrammed it and moved it to that machine. I was able increase the feeds and speeds and the parts are coming off the machine are perfect. Trying to machine complex parts with a cheap machine can be very frustrating. I really don't like it when I make a part and I know the program is right but the parts are coming out wrong do to some issue with the machine. Then you have to try to tweak everything and you go home at night wondering if something is going to go wrong with the job. Now that I moved this job to the Kitamura I can sleep easy knowing that it will run hassel free.

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quote:

Only the Heidenhain MillPLUS does but that control is build exclusively for DMG ( FD machines )


You´re right. Only Millplus or Siemens 840d sl are available for mill/turn (is called FD at DMG)

 

quote:

Did the Hermle guy tell you anything else about them? Linear drives perhaps?


No, and unfortunately i don´t ask for that. He said they maybe release it in half a year. (the AMB is at the time wink.gif )

I guess that must be linear drives, because they do rapid feed rate 60m/min and acceleration 10m/s2 with ball screws already and call it dynamic. (C40 and the new C42)

I can´t imagine they only put a torque motor in the table from a C20 push the feed rate up and call it HSC.

 

 

bye

garf

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Looking forward to see what Hermle is coming up with. I like their machines. Have worked with U1130, C600U, C20U, C30U and C40U. All really good machines.

 

Yes a C20U with torque A- and C-axis would be a too cheap solution for them. Hopefully a complete new design.

 

I also think they need to go away from the current gantry design. For a real highspeed machine the gantry design has too much moving mass.

 

The right design would be a portal machine like the Röders. Hermle could just buy a Röders, put on a Heidenhain iTNC530 and change the name sticker. The colour is already right

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quote:

I like their machines. Have worked with U1130, C600U, C20U, C30U and C40U. All really good machines.


Wow, thats enviable.

Some Hermle users i aks in german forums, are all very satisfied with their machines.

I want one, but i´m a lil bit unsure which one. A C20U or a B300.

 

bye

garf

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quote:

I want one, but i´m a lil bit unsure which one. A C20U or a B300

I think they are about the same price. I would defiantly prefer a C20U. The B300U is old technology ( in fact just a old C800U with newest control and new door design ) A- and C-axis much slower than the C20U and you're also limited to 15k spindle.

 

Of course the C20U has smaller axis travel but it still has enough compared to the 280mm. table.

 

 

My personal favourite Hermle is a C40U dynamic with 420mm. table and 28k spindle. A friend of mine work on such a machine and when he's on vacation I some times step in smile.gif

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quote:

The B300U is old technology ( in fact just a old C800U with newest control and new door design ) A- and C-axis much slower than the C20U and you're also limited to 15k spindle.


Yes, thats right. Also the linear axis are slower.

And i like the stainless steel in the working area.

I guess its easy to clean.

What i dislike is the small max. workpiece height when

the A-axis stand on +/- 90 degree. From table top level

u have in Y-axis max 310mm.

When u use a Zero-point-system with 45mm height and a vise with 110mm height, u only have half of

the the 310mm. frown.gif

On the B300 u have 455mm instead the 310 from the c20u.

 

bye

garf

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Yes that is a general Hermle problem, ( expect for the new C50U and C60U ) they swivel the workpiece in the Y direction but have the longest travel in X.

 

If you need work height for tall parts the C20U isn't the way to go. Both the B300U and the C30U with "ausser mittig" table configuration will give you 455mm. from Y endstop to table surface at 90 degrees.

 

If you are a toolmaker and have long running programs with high spindle speed I would seriously consider the C30U with the 28k spindle.

 

The 10k, 15k, and 18k spindles from Hermle are all inline spindle and here the spindlenose itself hasn't any cooling. This causes a big growth when running high speed over time. The electronic compensation will of course adjust for this but it isn't nowhere as accurate as the 28k which is a real integral motorspindle.

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quote:

Yes that is a general Hermle problem, ( expect for the new C50U and C60U )


And maybe the new C42U. The same speed as a C40U dynamic, but travel in X-Y-Z are 800mm-800mm-550mm.

 

Thanks for your hints on spindle and C30U. Unfortunately we have not enough space (nearly 2 meters) behind the machine for the chip tub. The C30U dynamic would be my dream but i think she is also a lil bit expensive for us. smile.gif

(B300 is a little bit cheaper than C20U)

My Boss want a DMG which i certainly not want, but thats another story.

 

Do u have the speed specs from the (old) C600U? Are they pretty much the same as the B300? (linear rapid 30m/min, linear acceleration 5m/s2, A-axis 10 1/min, C-Axis 15,5 1/min)

 

bye

garf

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quote:

Do u have the speed specs from the (old) C600U? Are they pretty much the same as the B300? (linear rapid 30m/min, linear acceleration 5m/s2, A-axis 10 1/min, C-Axis 15,5 1/min)

Yes I think they are about the same, but rapid was 35m/min.

 

The last produced C600U had the same table as in the C20U and with the same speeds, A-axis 25 1/min, C-Axis 25 1/min.

 

So if you're looking for a used C600U then see if you can find one with this table.

 

It's possible to mount the chiptub before rolling the machine in to the final position. And if you don't need to take it out again you can get it very close to the wall. But of course the C30 has a bigger footprint than the C20/B300.

 

I would also any day choose a Hermle over a DMG. Big difference in quality. Hermle is a real machine builder - like most of the Japanese - and produce most of the machine themselves. DMG just put parts from subcontractors together.

 

[ 04-25-2010, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Mic ]

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Like this one. One of last generation C600U

hermle_c600u.jpg

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