Denford ?

[Dave8022]

High school teacher in Pennsylvania...looking to replace some desktop machines. Budget...around $10,000 per machine. Anyone out there use Denford machines? I'd like to hear if you have heard anything good or bad about them. The medium to larger machines...Mill and Lathe. How much are they? Any info. would be much appreciated. [email protected]

[gcode]

Do a search of the forum for desktops.

There was an active thread on the subject with some good links a couple of weeks ago

[mold100]

Dave,

cant help with the question but where in pa.

are you?

[Dave8022]

Originally from Johnstown, now in York. I wanna buy a machine that is not too expensive, but want quality. Haas toolroom mill would be nice, but too expensive.

[Jack Mitchell]

Dave,

 

Quality at $10K is hardly a realistic expectation. – No bash intended.

I might suggest considering a Redcam milling machine which is a basic conventional desktop that is retrofitted with small ball screws and an AHHA controller.

These are produced in Cambridge Ontario, Canada.

 

As benchtop machines go, I have found these to be Fanuc compatible and very capable of cutting more than cheese or Styrofoam; yes, you will need to take layered passes, and yes the machines can actually cut 316 stainless. (My students are required to program/set up/operate 18 different projects using seven different materials (none of which are Styrofoam or wood)).

 

I believe these to be priced around 14K Canadian, which equates to about 9K American.

Please do a search on Redcam or contact Preston Rebuilt Machinery in Cambridge; I’m sure they will have something for consideration.

 

When we looked at benchtop machinery, the sales guys just kept lining up with these little miniature toys with the pretty blue paint and the cheap lexan guarding (they looked like little race car motors attached to miniature ball screws).

 

Whatever machine you ultimately choose to go with, please be sure that the machine is Fanuc compatible; I once taught at a high school that had seven different proprietary controls and none were Fanuc compatible; the problem was that a student could actually become quite proficient in three months on a control that he will never see in industry – this makes me angry.

 

I realize and respect that you are a high school teacher – I respect you that much more for asking this question, right here in this very forum. Thank you for caring about the program that you teach and good luck with your final decision.

 

Regards, Jack

[Dave8022]

Thanks Jack, I do appreciate your input, and will look into the information you posted. I'm going to open myself up to much criticism here...I have heard the term "Fanuc" before...can you give a brief explanation in Lehman's terms? I've obviously never worked in Industry, and have only recently learned the basics of C.N.C. We've relied mostly on manual programming with G & M codes, with machines that barely cut aluminum.

 

This year I will be implementing MasterCam into the curriculum. I would regard a person such as yourself to be much more of an expert on this topic. Could you please provide a little insight on the topic? Thanks again for the info.

 

Dave

[Jack Mitchell]

Dave,

 

Fanuc is a Japanese standard that took the world by storm in the late seventies, yes it is G & M coding.

This company was the first to implement a CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) on a cnc machine tool; needless to say, their standard immediately became the darling of programmable cnc controls. - Prior to this, the standard bounced around between even /odd parity and paper tape.

 

Fanuc became the standard much like MSDOS became the standard of computing; Fanuc compatibility makes the playing field level for 95% of programming today – this is a very important tool for any student or professional alike. – If you can comprehend and work with a standard, then you should be easily employable and relatively flexible enough to adapt to the many differing opinions regarding sound cnc programming practice.

 

There are hardly any experts in such a diverse trade such as ours – everybody has to be different, everybody has to be right in their own application, this will never change; the only sanity we keep, is the fact that we adhere to some type of standard practice: the standards we choose are Fanuc compatible programming methods.

 

Sure, there are the ney-sayers, mostly from Europe; the standard there is a little bit different from what is addressed and complimented as the standard in America and Japan.

 

Just do a little surfing on this question, perhaps another member could reply as well; I fully support any training facility that teaches an industry standard, this is vitally important for faculty and students alike.

 

Regards, Jack

 

[ 02-02-2003, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: Jack Mitchell ]

[Dave8022]

Jack,

 

Do you currently use Red/Cam machines? I looked into the desktop Mill & Lathe. I will get a price quote asap.

 

Not sure if you can answer this question or not...but, on the desktop mill, is the headstock in a fixed position? Just the cutting bit extends down, such as a mill/drill setup? If so, and if you use the machine, how has the machine held up? I am concerned the farther the bit extends from the headstock, of the stability of the cutter. Also, I see no hand wheels to manually move the machine. Movement is done via the computer? Main purpose I guess would be that of setting the PRZ.

 

If you don't use these machines, or if you can't answer, I understand...sorry to be a bother. Thanks again for your information.

 

Dave

 

P.S. I e-mailed this question to you..unsure of whether you would respond on here.

[Jack Mitchell]

Yes, I do indeed use these mills as a teaching/training tool - I have for the past five years.

 

On the left of the column is a hand crank which works via a very simple and cheap rack & pinion set up.

 

The machine tool is not very rigid - but at 9K US dollars you are not going to get a Mazak.

 

The quill has a programmable stroke of about four inches, you always need to maximize your set up to take full advantage of existing rigidity- there are no handwheels for these are fully programmable machine tools.

 

Would I recommend the purchase? yes.

Would I purchase one for myself? no - I can build it better and cheaper, but that's just me -I dont xxxx around with quality (It's in my nature to build a Titanic and then some - who among us could possibly expect so much).

 

The bright side is that this machine tool can cut metal - for so few of the others would dare.

 

Ask for a quote for four machines, buy two for half of the quote - once you appear happy with the purchase buy another four.

 

Generally, I am happy these were purchased - the other options just did not hold water, it just seemed to me that the other machines might have stalled badly during the styrofoam challenges.

 

I can add no more on this subject.

 

Regards, Jack

 

[ 02-02-2003, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Jack Mitchell ]