O/T "MADE IN USA"????

[David S]

This one is from the "...move to China" post, but is not political. Please do not make any sensitive remark. Do not attack one another.

 

Not long ago, we designed a little device for REVLON. They loved the design and the prototype working model (we have one of the best model shops in this NYC area). They want 50 more working models for further testing and sales meetings national wide. We searched web and gave REVLON the list of names that make small-quantity injection mold parts in USA. A week later, we were instructed to e-mail the Pro-E files to Shanghai, China. Week and half later, we got 150 production pieces in various colors, different materials and in top quality. Job was done after a few of changes. REVOLON told us later that they called those listed people and finally decided sending the job to their own factory in Shanghai, China. The cost was 1/3 of US cost and faster returns time (US needs 6 weeks). I saw the product 2 weeks ago on a drug store shelf. "Made in USA" was printed on the bottle. I think they mean the liquid or they might move the production line back to US.

 

It is a true story. Now a day, there is no way you can prevent your clients from sending their jobs oversea, and it is very hard to find real "MADE IN USA". We thought our Bridgeport CNC was pure blood "made in USA" until we opened the computer cover. "Printed in Singapore" is at the corner of the circuit board. Come on, even this forum is "made in Canada", how could I say: "I use everything that is MADE IN USA?"

 

I am not an economist neither a narrow-minded protectionist. I don't know which side is right or wrong and I don't want to discuss it here in this forum. There are three technical questions on my mind and hope someone in this forum can give me answers.

 

1. What kind US jobs (beside military industry, post office… ) will not be taken away by foreign competition?

2. How could those well-trained and skillful tool and die makers make living after their companies moved out of country? Supermarket Cashiers? Move to another state? It nust be very hard for them.

3. Someone said manufactures moved out would make us rich. How?

 

Again, those are technical questions. I just want learn something I do not know.

 

Webby, thanks for your "MADE IN CANADA" forum.

[Brendan P]

It is funny because Harley Davidson's claim to

fame is "Made In The USA",but the carb,speedo/tachometer,forks,shocks,triple trees,

are made in Japan.

The wiring harness has a German name.

And I think that the wheels may be made in England.Why?? I don't know? Why build 80% in USA

and sub out the rest?

 

My bike was buit 100% in the USA,cause I built the whole thing myself.

[Guest]

Hi Bucket head,

How about these wheels. At least the finish work was "made in the USA"

http://nc-directions.com/auto.html#NC%20Directions

 

[ 02-20-2003, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Tom Smith ]

[Brendan P]

Yup very nice bike Tom.

Is this your place?

Nice wheels.Unfortunatly harley's wheels aren't

that nice.

And if they were,they would probably weigh

lot.

Don't get me wrong guys..I am not trying to

bash H.D.

[Ray Culver]

You could have all the parts for a product, except for 1, made and assembled in a foreign country. All someone in the USA has to do is screw the remaining part in place and now they can legally classify and label it as "Made In USA".

 

I don't know if the actual "Made In USA" sticker itself is considered a "part", but it may be.

[Diedesigner]

Unfortunately, there are no easy answers here.

China has a tremendous population from which they can draw a workforce. I saw a special on PBS recently about the market revolution China has undergone. Their state run companies were hemoraging money, so one of the top government officials stated that all state run companies had to become profitable within three years. The condition of some of these companies was so bad, it would have been cheaper to shut them down and continue to pay the workers. This was in 1997 I believe.

The end result has been massive layoffs and high unemployment. Its amazing how alike we all are in that many chinese industry workers are facing the same problems that we are -- loss of benefits, health care, and no jobs to be found. A large part of the problem there is that in the former paradigm, workers had no incentive to improve either their job skills or their productivity. They were assigned a job by the state, and all they had to do was show up. So many of these workers have absolutely no job skills.

I think the biggest problem with China is the government there. Before Clinton pushed to grant China "most favored nation" trade status, we had something to hold over their heads when it came to human rights or any other issue, like the chinese government subsidizing the steel supplied to companies in China, or software piracy. Now that they have this trade status, we are almost powerless to do anything about anything -- read the latest Forbes about Microsoft's problems there.

 

Semi-OT:

For those of you who thought Clinton was so "great for the economy" -- I hope you still don't feel that way as you watch much of our work head to asia. I won't even go into how China was caught trying to steal our nuclear technology, or influence our elections.

 

Back On-Topic:

I believe our greatest hope lies in pressuring our politicians for policy changes which will make it more expensive to produce products overseas. The biggest drawback to this is that many american companies want to produce there. Its all about the almighty dollar.

 

Just remember:

Dude! Your getting a new Dell! Its only $699 because its being made by asian workers making around $.30/hour!

 

Sorry for the long, semi-political ramble.

[Surface]

A friend and customer of mine often purchase parts from overseas because American companies often cannot compete. I often thought this was B/S. I mean, I keep up to date with technology, I keep my expenses to minimum and I take a lot of pride in what I do.

On a recent trip to Vietnam, he sent me this photo of one of my competitors.

That’s a lathe on the left, but notice the coffee table and couch behind it. That’s the living room! and the stairs behind it up to the bedroom.

How can we compete

 

 

 

[J Coulston]

quote:

---

2. How could those well-trained and skillful tool and die makers make living after their companies moved out of country? Supermarket Cashiers? Move to another state? It nust be very hard for them.

---

Even the grocery stores are foreign owned. On the East Coast and part of the South Royal Ahold a Netherlands corporation owns the following grocery chains Stop & Shop, Giant (Landover), Giant (Carlisle), Tops, BI-LO, Brunos, and US Foods Service. Total 2001 sale generated from retail food sales 35.3 billion dollars.

 

[government rant]Work for the government, they charge what they want, you have to pay or else, they have no competition. What percentage of the Chinese shops overhead rate is resultant from OSHA, EPA, taxes, fees, FICA, Workers Comp, Liability insurance, any of the millions regulations that exist in the US. The problem is over regulation and taxation, not fair completion.[/government rant]

 

Surface’s picture shows it all.

 

John

 

CNC in the living room, that would be great. Hold on a sec Hunny at the commercial I have to load some more parts. Be back in a minute, be a dear and get me a snack. Oooo the makings of a perfect marriage.

 

[ 02-21-2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: J Coulston ]

[Ray Culver]

See the picture of Ho Chi Min proudly displayed for the authorities?

 

 

http://genji.image.pbase.com/u21/rculver00...1010195_IMG.jpg

[Ray Culver]

Okay - so how do you insert a pic into this forum?

[Guest]

Bucket Head,

Yes, it is my place.

The bike took best of show. The wheels are "one-of-a-kind" (actually both the same) The wheel design and programming were done on Mastercam.

[biss03]

hey buckethead,

 

actually the forks for the harley davidson are made in the USA. a company in Grand Rapids Michigan gets the tubes from a supplier in Chicago and they send the parts to my company (in little ole muskegon Michigan) to machine the welded forks before sending to harley plant somewhere down south (i think South Carolina) to be assembled. so not everything is made outside. but i do agree that too much of it is.

[McRae]

Surface,

 

Is this a picture of a guy's living room - or does he live in his shop.

[Jack Mitchell]

Surface,

 

Thank you for sharing the photograph with the forum.

 

Let’s analyze this print for a moment.

 

Lovely open air experience = healthy working environment.

Plastic draw curtains will certainly keep out the moisture (rainy seasons).

Curtain also allows for easy access with lift trucks (if available).

Poor quality photo washes out background (could provide a little insight).

Can’t be sure but there appears to be a sewing machine & computer monitor.

The floor looks remarkably clean.

 

I look upon this photo with pride for the person or persons that earn their living.

Think about it for a moment, I probably paid more in last years income tax than this man will likely make in his lifetime, I do not see the spoils of a good life here, I can only view a very poor snapshot offering a small glimpse into another person’s life.

 

I do not believe this to be a typical argument for competing against China, Taiwan, or Mexico. I have heard about several small family run businesses that are indeed ran right out of the living rooms and bedrooms in Japan. I cannot say if this is true since I have never viewed such photos.

 

Thank you Surface for this picture, I wish that we could view more or similar in the future; when I look at this I somehow feel that I all too often ask or expect to much from myself and others.

I envy this man for his simple and hopefully happy life.

I just don’t think I could step into this picture nor do I believe too many other forum members would.

 

 

Regards, Jack

 

[ 02-23-2003, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: Jack Mitchell ]