Suggestions for a new mill

[ThRaSH]

We make a lot of cutting tools, I'd say that's 85% of what we do. So basically round parts with insert pockets. My boss wants to buy a new Haas VF-6/40 with a trunnion table mounted to one end.

The 5-axis capability would be nice, but I'm wondering if we might be better served with a mill turn machine. As always they don't want to spend much money. Just wondering for the type of work we do if the Haas would be a good fit or is there something that you guys would suggest?

[Trevor Bailey]

how many do you do per day? you can get custom trunnions that can hold many parts.

[ThRaSH]

It varies from 1 part to multiple - usually less than 100 parts. Right now the work flow is pre-heat treat round stock, turn the part (lathe), OD Grind the shank either before or after mill work, and then pockets, flutes, clearances are milled on the part.

[Trevor Bailey]

sounds pretty simple and i assume you already have a process underway. buying a multi-tasking machine will be fun for you and something to add to your resume, but i think it is overkill for your current shop. i suggest buying the haas with a multi-station trunnion. or, if you are not cutting positive or negative seats, just flats, you can get a multi-station 4th axis as well.

[crazy^millman]

Mill Turn all the way and the only way for stuff like that. What makes people think handling parts to different machine is really practical. People are staying busy invested money in new equipment and process. People who are and were happy with who things are are losing work or have closed their doors. Looking for something that will give you a competitive edge over the competition would be my thought process. Most tools are not harder than 50rc so I would be heat treating bar stock then roughing and finishing that bad boy right from heat treat on a mill/turn. Hey I am considered crazy so what do I know? Just lay out an good ROI showing everything from handling to fixturing to the quality one operation gives verse several operations give you. I mean break it down to set-up time, programming time, to fixture cost, to special long tool holder you need for the Mill most likely would not need for a mill/turn. Also Labor needs ot be considered on a real scale where as with several machine you have insurance cost, electrical cost, rent, labor, tooling and add all of that up. Now one person on one machine that make complete parts in a 200 sqft space or 4 people in a 2000 sqft space? Where do you start to pay for something that yes upfront is more, but in months to years in 40 to 50 times the return on investment verses going with a more complex and harder method? Sorry, but I can never figure out why people get so scared with Mill/Turns or think they are too expensive when the exact opposite is really the reality to those who have got them tooled them up correctly and are kicking but and taking names.

 

Sorry maybe not what you wanted to hear, but it what I have got.

[ThRaSH]

I should have said 1 part to less than a 100 per order...multiple orders per day. We make a lot of custom tooling and are more of a job shop than production shop. I think I see your point on buying\using a MTM though. That does seem better suited for a production setting.

 

I also think along the lines of Millman too. The problem with our shop is we are a little behind the times. Right now we do most of our mill work in a 4th, but to cut +\- seats we'll use an angle plate under the 4th to achieve the desired angle. It's a hassle with setups and that's where a 5 axis would really help. Taking it a step further with a mill-turn is something I'd like to see, but I also wonder if we need to take some baby steps. They also don't want to spend much money - I think the new Haas is around $160k, how much for good\cheap MTM?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

...good\cheap MTM...

No such beast.

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Nakamura NTMX is worth a look. Thie link shows a Super NTMX, the NTMX does not have the glass scales and is significantly less money. I'll put it up against ANY other MTM.

 

Matsuura Cublex machines are in use at cutting tool manufacturers all over the world. May be overkill, might not be. It's worth a look.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

is there such a thing as good and cheap????

[GoetzInd]

I agree with the mill turn. Look at the new mori NTX1000 without the lower turret. Should be around $300K. We just had one quoted.

 

Mike

[Joe788]

Mill/Turn without question. You could get away with a single spindle/single head machine and still knock the socks off of your current process. You should be able to get a stripped down machine like that for well under $300K.

[Trevor Bailey]

as i agree, a mill/turn would be sweet. but as he has mentioned, sounds like he is on a budget, thus the multi-station trunnion.

 

i know some will gasp at this statement, but HAAS has a new machine out.....DS 30SSY - twin spindle with C & Y axis. nice video of it on their website.