In Machine TLO vs Offline Presetting

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

We've got a couple horizontals, a vertical, and a lathe, and are considering options for tool length measurement. We've got an old presetter which requires that we print out a label and then punch the numbers into the control, and are looking at getting a newer / better one that will send them straight to the control. Another option would be to touch off the tools in the machine, either with laser or contact probes. Anyone have opinions on which way to go? Initial investment cost isn't as big a deal as productivity and reliability.

 

Thanks!

[GoetzInd]

We use an offline presetter and love it. But like yours, we either have to print labels, or create a program which leaves room for improvement in the process. We also have in machine probing but it doesn't allow you to pre-kit tools.

 

Mike

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

So I guess the question is, is it faster for you to punch in numbers or for the machine to touch off it's own tools?

[BenK]

We use an offline presetter for all our tools. We have it post out a program that we can just load into the machine no hand typing at the control.

[robk]

We set our TLO as well as Ø wear on the machines using lasers. Depending on which block delete # is used (Mazak machines) the operator could probe all the tools in the beginning of the program or at the beginning of every sequence. I then have a check to make sure the diameter of the tool in the spinle is within a certain tolerance that it needs to be. Next step is to check the TLO to make sure it is within the tolerance as well. Since we make some large parts(they could be on the machine for days) this works great for running the jobs unattended (we also use probing routines within the programs). Lasers also allow us to check the stickouts of the tools in the right angle heads as well as probing/checking profiles of custom tools.

 

Here is a short sample from our integrex;

 

()

M00

(****ATTENTION****)

(****ATTENTION****)

(****ATTENTION****)

(****ATTENTION****)

(RUN WITH BLOCK DELETE 8 ACTIVE TO SKIP TLO MEASUREMENT AT BEGINNING OF PROGRAM)

()

()

M00

(****ATTENTION****)

(****ATTENTION****)

(****ATTENTION****)

(****ATTENTION****)

(RUN WITH BLOCK DELETE 7 ACTIVE TO SKIP TLO MEASUREMENT AT BEGINNING OF EVERY SEQUENCE)

()

()

()

()

/7GOTO#3901 (USE PART COUNTER TO SEARCH FOR SEQUENCE NUMBERS)

G20 G69 G80 G40 G49 G17 G90 G94

G10.9 X0 (SET RAD. MODE)

G91 G28 Z0.

G28 X0. Y0.

G90

()

()

()

()

/8T01 T02 M06

/8G65 P9862 B1. T01 S3000

/8G91 G28 X0. Y0. Z0. B0. C0.

/8T02 M06 T03

/8G65 P9862 B3. T02 D02 I [.3125/2] S3000

/8G91 G28 X0. Y0. Z0. B0. C0.

/8T03 M06 T04

/8G65 P9862 B3. T03 D03 I [.125/2] S3000

/8G91 G28 X0. Y0. Z0. B0. C0.

/8T04 M06 T05

.

.

.

.

.

()

()

N2 T01 T02 M06

#3901 =#4114

G20 G69 G80 G40 G49 G17 G90 G94

G10.9 X0 (SET RAD. MODE)

G91 G28 Z0.

G28 X0. Y0.

G90

()

()

/7G65 P9862 B1. T01 S3000

G4

#162000=0

G4

G65 P9862 B2. T2000 D2000 I[.1732/2] E.010 S3000

G4

#162000=0

G4

G65 P9863 T01 H-.020 S3000

()

(T01----4.4mm DIA. CARBIDE DRILL)

()

(DRILL -G- HOLE TO .1732 DIA.)

()

G20 G69 G80 G40 G49 G17 G90 G94

G10.9 X0 (SET RAD. MODE)

G91 G28 Z0.

G28 X0. Y0.

M200 (C AXIS CONNECTION)

M108 M212 ( B AXIS UNCLAMP C AXIS UNCLAMP)

G53 G90 G00 B0.

G57

G00 C68.5

G00 G90 G54.1P21 X17.8838 Y0.0

G97 S1235 M03

G43 P1 Z25. H01 M08

G61.1 (HIGH ACCURACY MODE)

G00 Z3.

G81 X17.8838 Y0.0 Z-.3365 R.1 F3.7

G80

G00 Z15. M09

G64 M05 (CANCEL HIGH ACCURACY MODE)

G49 (CANCEL TLO)

G91 G28 X0. Y0. Z0. B0. C0.

G65 P9863 T01 H-.02 S3000

G91 G28 Z0.

M01

()

()

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.

.

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[Guest]

I actually created a post and would add my tools and holders, the lengths were all calculated and output as a header in the program. The toolcrib guy would choose the holder I spec'd and the tools I spec'd. He would set them to my defined lengths.

 

All of my programs had the G10 lines to feed all the TLO's into the control.

 

With the accuracy of the presetters most programs never needed to be adjusted more than a .001 or .002

 

Linky

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Thanks. Prolly leaning toward touch off in the machine. One concern though, is since these would be add-on touch probes there wouldn't be any shielding against chips; is that a serious issue? There's the worry of getting a chip between the tool and the probe. Or should we do the modular laser probe on long arms? (gots ta fit in a horizontal).

[GoetzInd]

I actually created a post and would add my tools and holders, the lengths were all calculated and output as a header in the program. The toolcrib guy would choose the holder I spec'd and the tools I spec'd. He would set them to my defined lengths.

 

All of my programs had the G10 lines to feed all the TLO's into the control.

 

With the accuracy of the presetters most programs never needed to be adjusted more than a .001 or .002

 

John, How did you handle collets while trying to set tools to a predetermined length? Our guys have a hard time creating exact gauge lengths with ER collets because of the pullback.

 

Mike

[Guest]

John, How did you handle collets while trying to set tools to a predetermined length? Our guys have a hard time creating exact gauge lengths with ER collets because of the pullback.

 

Mike

 

The guy in the tool crib was pretty good at getting them, he kind of figured how much pull back was happening and adjusted based on that. He was close a lot, however we RARELY put end mills in ER collets, so drills can be a little more forgiving for a few thou.

[Craig-B]

We use an offline presetter, but we type in the offset. We were going to read/write the bluff chip in the holder from the presetter, but it was too much to retro fit all the machining centers to read/write the bluff chip. Setting in the machine was costing a lot of cycle time and you couldn’t set all tool types, like from intersection, or a form mill from the center of a radius or a theoretical intersection because of the touch systems we have.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

"Bluff Chip"? Is this another term for RFID Chip?

[Joe788]

It's Baluff. He's just missing an a in there.

 

http://www.balluff.com/Balluff/us/ProductsChannel/Overview/en/Tool+ID.htm