Need advice transitioning the way our shop operates

[travis.vandusen]

Hey all, first post here. I recently got a job in a shop where they currently have 6 Mazak units. 2 Integrex's, 2 Quick Turns, a Vertical mill, and a Milltronics vertical mill. BUT they only have one operator that can program in Mazatrol and 2 more operators that don't program! So needless to say, we have much more machine idle time than we would like. This is where I come in. I had some very brief experience with X2 in college, and so they sent me to a class to learn mill/lathe level one. I learned a little in class, and with another g-code programming class at the local university and the videos at streamingteacher.com, I've become somewhat proficient at doing what I need to to in Mastercam.

 

So now we are at the point where I can make good programs, but the current programmer is reluctant to give up the control he has over the machines, even though there's no way he can keep with the work. The companys goal is to eventually move all programming to the engineering dept and hire more operators. So I have been put in charge of coming up with some type of communication system between the programmers (me) and the operators. Now, Ive looked into these setup sheets that mastercam provides without much luck. Not that I wouldn't to be able to program the reports designer, but I don't know exactly what needs to be communicated. Obviously tools, offsets, tool numbers, and a drawing, but is there anything else? Can anybody explain the system of communication their comapny uses so that I can use it as an example? I'm just trying my best to learn as much as possible here, because nobody here knows either. So any and all information or pointers or advice is greatly appreciated!

 

p.s. I'v been lurking here for a while and this is a great forum! What did people do before the internet

 

Travis

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Great questions Travis.

 

Some things that need to be communicated to setup personnel/operators;

 

Workpiece origin (try to come up with a common point, like upper left bottom corner) for each operation.

Tool Lengths (Length of Cut - LOC, and Extionsion from the holder - EXT)

Holder Type (Side Lock, ER Collet, TG Collet, etc...

Program Number

Tool List

Material Size Length/Width Directions

Put all of this documentation together in a some sort or traveler/router and keep it with the material.

 

HTH

[dforsythe]

Attached is an example of a very simple setup sheet for a production job.

 

 

We do a lot of complex lamination tools, machining fixtures for carbon parts and bond tools. Right now three programmers are kicking out about 30-40 one off jobs a month with some having up to ten components. Mix in a few jobs that take 150+ hrs to program and it gets messy. It can get tricky when you have a few operation then install more components clamps, drill bushing, tooling balls ect for a final machine and expect it to go perfect. The number one reason ( and yes we track it ) operators / setup guys head up to programming is setup information. Tool paths only account for 3% of the error / questions here. It can be tough to get all the info you need onto a setup sheet. Be sure to focus on your programming documentation. If you are roughing a bore leaving .030, then make sure it’s on the setup sheet and in the program. Its like a road map when they are wondering what the tool is doing and what is expected outcome is. Over time the operators will get familiar with your style and will always have a good idea of what you’re doing. This will reduce the amount of information they need, but it shouldn’t prevent you from adding it anyway. You never know when guy A is out the door and guy B is now your link between good parts and a crash. One last tip…………..buy lots of donuts! It will prevent a guy form coming into your office saying what the he!! do you mean by this. Instead he says…….i noticed this, can you take a look

 

[Joels]

I always make sure i stay in contact with the personnel in the shop. The setup/leadman and operators. I get information from them of how the think when they are doing thier job and i try to keep that in mind when i am making documentation. Just because we programmers expect a machine to be setup a certain way does not mean that will happen. Keep the floor happy and they will keep you happy.

[robk]

Operators receive a tool list, setup sheet, as well as the 1st page of the program.

 

[travis.vandusen]

Wow! Thanks for the quick responses! Right now, we're starting the transition on the lathes only, before the other machines. Do you guys have any specific ideas about lathe?

 

How do you guys handle the offset numbers for tools? Right now, I am going to the operator/g-code programmer to get the list of the tools he uses, and then which position in the turret they are going into. Should I be getting the offset numbers from him too? He keeps telling me to leave the offsets at zero and he will go in and change them to what he needs. But this doesn't seem like the most efficient way. It seems like it would be faster for me to just put them into mastercam, right?

[dforsythe]

Wow! Thanks for the quick responses! Right now, we're starting the transition on the lathes only, before the other machines. Do you guys have any specific ideas about lathe?

 

How do you guys handle the offset numbers for tools? Right now, I am going to the operator/g-code programmer to get the list of the tools he uses, and then which position in the turret they are going into. Should I be getting the offset numbers from him too? He keeps telling me to leave the offsets at zero and he will go in and change them to what he needs. But this doesn't seem like the most efficient way. It seems like it would be faster for me to just put them into mastercam, right?

 

 

We program everything that is not in a FMS cell with 1^st tool always being t#1 and2nd tool being #2 ect. You never know what tools will be in a non resident system so it is usually easier to program them 1,2,3 and let them change the corresponding T,H,D if applicable. As far as I know this is industry standard.

 

 

[travis.vandusen]

We program everything that is not in a FMS cell with 1^st tool always being t#1 and2nd tool being #2 ect. You never know what tools will be in a non resident system so it is usually easier to program them 1,2,3 and let them change the corresponding T,H,D if applicable. As far as I know this is industry standard.

 

I guess this would work out alright if the operator were willing to cooperate. He seems to have the attitude that I'm taking his job, and anything that I do differently than he's used to is wrong and/or bad.

 

What about tool offsets? Leave them for the operator to enter in?

[TheePres]

Ask management if cooperation is part of operators jobs description and if so to remind these operators.

[ablucra]

I guess this would work out alright if the operator were willing to cooperate. He seems to have the attitude that I'm taking his job, and anything that I do differently than he's used to is wrong and/or bad. What about tool offsets? Leave them for the operator to enter in?

 

 

We must have his brother working here. I still program in the offsets and tool numbers for both lathe and mill.

If they change settings thats on them. I listen to what they have to say as you can get some good input. When I go outside

their box I suggest they try it first then give me feed back.

[travis.vandusen]

I think I'll go about making a setup sheet like this:

Do you all have any suggestions?

 

2297_001.pdf

[Mick]

I've just started in a new position, with another company. They have four CNC machines (two Okuma lathes, one Okuma MB56VA vertical machining centre with a rotary axis and an Okuma Multus B400W). This company has no drawings, models, or shop floor documentation. Everything is down using notes operators have recorded.

 

Needless to say, I have my work cut out for me, as I have come from an environment exactly the opposite. However, I have the backing of management to implement all the above, so it is what I percieve, a task before me

 

For setup sheets, I just created templates in MS Excel. I've created one for each of the machines, and they are now ready to start rolling out.

 

The last place I worked at used Excel as well, and it seems to work well. If you want some examples, send me a message, as I would be more than happy to provide some.

[Joels]

Robk, Those setup sheets are great. Did you make them in excel?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Something cool you could do... in your tool change macro IMMEDIATELY following the M6, you could capture #4120 into say #506 or #516 then make all your H's H#506 and D's be D#506, that way you only have to change tool numbers in the program if it changes from job to job.

 

Just a thought...

[Bob W.]

I had a local high school kid (with computer skills) create an active reports setup sheet to my liking and paid him $250 for doing so. After the second revision it is really working well! I typically print the setup sheet, a tool list from X+, a part drawing with highlighted inspection dimensions, and a few hand written notes, and staple it all together.

 

Once the job is done the operator writes notes and observations and the packet gets filed in the shop and the program gets archived in the 'proven NC' folder in the part directory on the server. In the proven NC directory there is an Excel log 'NC revision history' tracking revisions along with notes of what the revisions were, program name, revision number, date, who proved it, cycle time, tool list revised check, and setup sheet revised check.

 

It has been working well and my goal is to minimize how often the operator needs to interrupt me, and to avoid re-posting and re-proving programs that have been run in the past.