Big Plus Double Contact Spindle with Non Big Plus Tools

[Mick]

We recently ordered an Okuma MU500VA 5 axis mill, with a 20k Big Plus double contact spindle.

 

What is the general consensus with Big Plus spindles and non Big Plus tools? Is it recommended to run only Big Plus tools, or is it safe to run non-double contact tools as well?

 

Running collet chucks that are holding drills wouldn't offer any advantage (if the chucks were double contact), but chucks holding endmills I guess would be an adavantage in Big Plus.

 

I'm interested in any feedback

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[Eric@HorsepowerInc.]

We recently purchased a Doosan with the Big Plus, should be in here this week or the following, and we asked the same thing. We were informed it is OK to run regular tooling. But, we were also informed that running unapproved Big Plus tooling would void the spindle warranty. We will just be running standard Cat40 holders, as most all of our tooling is such. The Big plus may have it's place, the only thing that scares me is possible chips between the contact flange.

[YoDoug®]

The main issue is chips between the flange and spindle. if you can hook up an airblast to clean out the chips before switching to a big plus tool is the best way to be safe. Kaiser also makes a dummy tool that directs the spindle through coolant and air to the bottom of the flange. You can change to that tool and quickly hit the coolant and air if you need to. It would add a good 15 second to your cycle time but if you are running something like cast iron I would recommend it.

[Newbeeee™]

Doug - is this really an issue?

#40 taper machines and holders (std) have nominal an 80 thou gap between toolholder flange and spindle face.

A face and taper holder has approx .040 added to the flange.

A face and taper spindle has approx .040 added to the spindle face.

So put a face/taper holder into a standard spindle and you get a .040 gap.

Put a std holder into a face and taper spindle and you get a .040 gap.

 

On our robodrills (#30 taper and .060 approx gap), we very occasionally now get chips between spindle face and holder face, but it's always a dual holder and never a standard holder (which has .030 gap).

To the extent that we had a tech mod thee plc on the tool change where the head comes down over the tool lower and dwells for a second airblowing before continuing with the toolchange, This has cured 99% of the probs..

[Mr. M]

It's only a minor problem when going between BigPlus and non BigPlus tools in cycle. If you are using 100% one or the other, you have no worrys at all.

[YoDoug®]

Doug - is this really an issue?

#40 taper machines and holders (std) have nominal an 80 thou gap between toolholder flange and spindle face.

A face and taper holder has approx .040 added to the flange.

A face and taper spindle has approx .040 added to the spindle face.

So put a face/taper holder into a standard spindle and you get a .040 gap.

Put a std holder into a face and taper spindle and you get a .040 gap.

 

On our robodrills (#30 taper and .060 approx gap), we very occasionally now get chips between spindle face and holder face, but it's always a dual holder and never a standard holder (which has .030 gap).

To the extent that we had a tech mod thee plc on the tool change where the head comes down over the tool lower and dwells for a second airblowing before continuing with the toolchange, This has cured 99% of the probs..

 

Chips won't be the issue, is the fines that build up with coolant and make a sludge when finish machining cast iron or even aluminum.

[mkd]

in twenty years we are going to look back at this big plus stuff and laugh about the bad old days. big plus is a questionable solution that causes more problems than it solves if you mix and match non-plus tools.

someday a machine tool mfr is going to grow a brain and make a hydraulically locking ring(s) that will automatically adjust for either type of holder plus it will have chip-fault tolerance.

sheesh, i wish i was the director of eng at one of the big boys..

[Mick]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry, I thought I had posted lasted night, but I must have had brain fade

 

I believe the MU500 has a function for air blow on the tool before loading into the spindle. I need to double check that. If not, I am certain we can rig something up

 

I programmed a machine with Big Plus a few years back (Matsuura MC600VF). We never had any chip problems with it, and we ran a mixture of tools.

[Newbeeee™]

big plus is a questionable solution that causes more problems than it solves if you mix and match non-plus tools.

 

I've never experienced any problems - that's on Robodrills and Matsuuras mixing both types of tools.

Cutting mostly ally but a fair bit of stainless as well.

Perhaps I'm just lucky...