Mazak VERTICAL CENTER UNIVERSAL 400 5X

[Matthew]

Good morning All.

 

We are looking for another 5 axis machine. Currently we have a VF3 with a TR-210 Trunnion.

 

We haven't looked at a whole lot yet, but the first we looked at was the Mazak VCU 400 or 500 5X. The price is very attractive to management.

 

I was curious if anyone has one of these machines and can offer some insight and possibly answer some questions we have.

 

I'd also be interested if anyone in the Southern Ontario area has one that we could see in action and talk to the programmer/operator of the machine.

 

Thanks,

 

Matt.

[crazy^millman]

 

Here is a link of one in action. I do like the Y axis Mounting of the trunnion over the traditional X axis Mounting. Helps the people see the work.

[Matthew]

Yes, I do like the y axis mounting. It's also good that they offset it 2" in the x+ direction so there is 12" of x travel on the left side of the trunnion, and 8" on the right. This is a benefit over our current setup where the TR-210 is in the center of the table on the VF3 so we are only able to move 10" either side.

 

Matt.

[crazy^millman]

They had one in the show room at Mazak here in So Cal, but I never got to play with it and do anything with it.

[Brewster]

We have had one on our shop floor since May. We haven't used it much. In fact mazak has been in numerous times to work on it.

[Matthew]

Brewster -

 

What kind of issues are you having with it?

 

Millman -

 

They have one in their technology center locally, but they didn't have a demo running when we went to see it. I saw it running at CMTS in September, but it was rocking a lot, I'm assuming it wasn't levelled properly.

 

I'm really hoping to get into a place that has one to see it run in a job shop environment. I'm not sure if the salesman is too keen to do that without some kind of committment from us to purchase. But this is something I'm going to ask of anyone that wants to sell us a machine. Does any here think this is an unusual request?

 

Matt.

[crazy^millman]

I'm really hoping to get into a place that has one to see it run in a job shop environment. I'm not sure if the salesman is too keen to do that without some kind of commitment from us to purchase. But this is something I'm going to ask of anyone that wants to sell us a machine. Does any here think this is an unusual request?

 

Nope and if they are not willing to do that then how confident are you going to be that it will do what you need? Why do you test drive a car? Why do they have IPAD and other things out for the consumer to try out. Granted a machine to try out, might be much, but I have always thought if a customer could go in an really try a machine out on something what kind of yield would a machine tool company get? Makerbot has set up places where people can see them in action and they are flying off the shelfs. That seems like a good example, but in reality it is not I suspect in 2 year we will see a ton of them on Ebay. Machines are quite different, but if you believe in your product then your product should be able to stand on it own merits. To many sales guys in my opinion want to play the con game. Well you must agree to purchase this and give us a PO then we will allow you the ability to see what you are getting. Nope let me see it in action. Let me see it doing the work I need. If they are still unwilling then have a 6 months clause put in the order that is machine fails to meet certain requirements then Mazak has to pay for all rigging and shipping of unit out of faculty and for replacement of machine even if it is a competitive machine. They want you to play the game without having to ante up to the table, okay we will play the game, but by my rules.

[Brewster]

Well, let me first state that the salesman has told us that the machine we have is the first one off the line, and most issues have been dealt with. I am not sure how accurate that statement is. We all know salesmen have been known to embellish a little.

 

The first thing we noticed about this machine was that the rotational travel limits of the machine were less than what was on the brochure and on the quote. Most places might not have been as concerned about that, but it is important to us. Then there was some trouble getting the machine set up. The radiator in the back for the spindle oil, blew out as soon as the machine was turned on. The tech had a lot of trouble getting the machine level. This was initially blamed on our concrete. After pouring a pad under the machine the problem still existed, not sure what he ended up doing to get it level. Mazak is on the floor today regrinding shims on the z axis because it wasn't moving perpendicular to the table. One of the brushes that protects the way covers, broke off. The machine has leaked coolant all over the floor since the tank was filled up. Mazak came in an re-caulked the interior......still hasn't fixed the problem. There are a few other minor issues that the techs are working on right now.

 

Having said all that, Mazak has been here doing what they can to make it right.

[scooke4073]

Nope and if they are not willing to do that then how confident are you going to be that it will do what you need? Why do you test drive a car? Why do they have IPAD and other things out for the consumer to try out. Granted a machine to try out, might be much, but I have always thought if a customer could go in an really try a machine out on something what kind of yield would a machine tool company get? Makerbot has set up places where people can see them in action and they are flying off the shelfs. That seems like a good example, but in reality it is not I suspect in 2 year we will see a ton of them on Ebay. Machines are quite different, but if you believe in your product then your product should be able to stand on it own merits. To many sales guys in my opinion want to play the con game. Well you must agree to purchase this and give us a PO then we will allow you the ability to see what you are getting. Nope let me see it in action. Let me see it doing the work I need. If they are still unwilling then have a 6 months clause put in the order that is machine fails to meet certain requirements then Mazak has to pay for all rigging and shipping of unit out of faculty and for replacement of machine even if it is a competitive machine. They want you to play the game without having to ante up to the table, okay we will play the game, but by my rules.

 

Mazak will bend over backwards to let a customer see our machines in action. I have cut several customer's parts when they are just going around kicking tires. We are willing to invest time and money into a project if it ensures the customer is getting exactly the machine he needs for the job.

[crazy^millman]

Mazaks are great machines and I personally think very highly of them though that lumps me as idiot by certain people definitions. My comments were not meant to be negative toward Mazak machines, but towards a sales process this person has laid out. I was putting out food for thought and I have done some pretty amazing things on Mazak's are they a Nakamura nope. Are they good machine yes and that is where you have to decide how much is faith it will work and how confident it will work. Not sure then I was hoping to give some ideas on how to cover yourself to provide the best due diligence needed. I liked Mazatrol I used it for many years on many different Mazaks. I have heard it slammed and dismissed all the time, but things we were doing with those controls 15 years ago are now things most machine are doing finally today. Mazak guys have always been good guys in my books.

[Matthew]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate everyone's candor.

 

Anyone care to share experiences with Matsuura MX520? This is another one I am looking at. Haven't been out to see one yet, maybe next week, but the specs on the machine seem more than adequate for what we do.

 

Thanks,

 

Matt.

[Scrump]

Nope and if they are not willing to do that then how confident are you going to be that it will do what you need? Why do you test drive a car? Why do they have IPAD and other things out for the consumer to try out. Granted a machine to try out, might be much, but I have always thought if a customer could go in an really try a machine out on something what kind of yield would a machine tool company get? Makerbot has set up places where people can see them in action and they are flying off the shelfs. That seems like a good example, but in reality it is not I suspect in 2 year we will see a ton of them on Ebay. Machines are quite different, but if you believe in your product then your product should be able to stand on it own merits. To many sales guys in my opinion want to play the con game. Well you must agree to purchase this and give us a PO then we will allow you the ability to see what you are getting. Nope let me see it in action. Let me see it doing the work I need. If they are still unwilling then have a 6 months clause put in the order that is machine fails to meet certain requirements then Mazak has to pay for all rigging and shipping of unit out of faculty and for replacement of machine even if it is a competitive machine. They want you to play the game without having to ante up to the table, okay we will play the game, but by my rules.

They had one in the show room at Mazak here in So Cal, but I never got to play with it and do anything with it.

 

 

 

 

There are many discerning customers that have their cynicism with surface finish, repeat ability, and through put. If I were purchasing a quarter million dollar machine and had no past experiences with them, I'd be hard pressed to go strictly by merit and have only the words of a tool salesman to console me during the purchase process. Depending on how serious the customer is in purchasing a machine and have genuine concerns that would need the real use of a machine, we could make the arrangements to get a "test drive" with customer material and print.