Comping programs in a cell system

[Zoffen]

I'm trying to figure out a good way to comp parts/pallets in our variaxis i-700 cell and am wondering how everyone does it. Seems like if your running a high mix of parts you need to keep all the comps local to that program but then how do you comp per individual pallet. 

 

In our palletec system there is a way to set work offsets for each pallet but you can't save them when you go delete that setup from the pallet.

 

Just looking for insight that might save us some head scratching and frustration.

 

Doesn't really have to be mazak specific, general ideas and fundamentals are welcome too!

 

Thanks in advance for the input!

[Joe788]

Do you mean work offsets or tool offsets? The Matrix control has 2000 tool offsets, so I just start using the first D offset above the highest actual magazine pocket, and keep counting up from there. Not sure what I'm gonna do if I ever hit 2000, but I'll worry about crossing that bridge when it comes. LOL

[Sticky]

It sounds like you are trying to manage work offsets? Can you be a little more specific? I have a few suggestions but it would be easier to help if you could go into more detail.

[djstedman]

Just a thought .. I have no idea what amount of macro variables there are in your machine, but I would assume there must be a macro/system variable that holds the current pallet, using that as an index you could make a macro that stored work/tool offsets on a pallet by pallet basis, by running that macro when you pallet changed you could swap all your work/tool offsets based on which pallet was active.

[YoDoug®]

In Okuma/Fastems cells we have a work offset preload program assigned to each pallet specific to a machine. When the cell controller loads the pallet the first program it runs is the preload program to update the offsets. Then it runs the machining program. That way only one machining program is maintained regardless of how many identical pallets or machines the parts are made in. 

[Zoffen]

I am looking to comp everything lol. Work offsets, tool wear z, tool wear D.

 

So i sat down with our guy who is running our cell, who has lots of previous cell experience, and we hashed out a strategy that should be flexible to be able to comp almost anything while still being easy for the operator to use and understand.

 

In our system we have decided on a few types of compensation you can have:

 

-Work offset compensations: i.e. use a different offset for each face of rotation and then be able to shift a whole faces features if necesarry. Set using Work offset setting function from cell controll, program will interpret specific work offsets(ie G54.1 P101) as a shift of an offset. So you can still set G10's in the program but shift it from the cell controller, forget to shift it, no big deal, forget to set work offsets= big deal

 

-"Universal" Tool Z Wear: - Tool wear Z value that always stays with the tool on the machine. Always comps by this value, set in machine control

 

-"Universal" Tool D Wear: - Tool wear D value that always stays with the tool on the machine.Always comps by this value, set in machine control

 

-"Specific" Tool Z Wear: - Tool wear Z Value that is specific only to this program. Always comps specific tool by this amount+"Universal" Tool Wear Z Value. Set in program header

 

-"Specific" Tool D Wear: - Tool wear D Value that is specific only to this program. Always comps specific tool by this amount+"Universal" Tool Wear D Value. Set in program header

 

-"Feature" Tool Z Wear: - Tool wear Z Value that is specific only to this feature. Always comps specific tool by this amount+"Specific"value+"Universal"Value. Set from cell controller through work offset setting interpreted as comp values.

 

-"Feature" Tool D Wear: - Tool wear D Value that is specific only to this feature. Always comps specific tool by this amount+"Specific"value+"Universal"Value. Set from cell controller through work offset setting interpreted as comp values.

 

"with all of these comps combined" it seems as if you could comp for almost anything and get parts in spec quickly and efficiently with a mix of tools at different wear levels.

 

All feature comps could tie into a key of what Work Offset Register(i.e. G54.1 P201 X Value) controls what feature.

 

Kinda long winded but this is the concept that we came up with, opinions much appreciated!

[crazy^millman]

I am looking to comp everything lol. Work offsets, tool wear z, tool wear D.

 

So i sat down with our guy who is running our cell, who has lots of previous cell experience, and we hashed out a strategy that should be flexible to be able to comp almost anything while still being easy for the operator to use and understand.

 

In our system we have decided on a few types of compensation you can have:

 

-Work offset compensations: i.e. use a different offset for each face of rotation and then be able to shift a whole faces features if necesarry. Set using Work offset setting function from cell controll, program will interpret specific work offsets(ie G54.1 P101) as a shift of an offset. So you can still set G10's in the program but shift it from the cell controller, forget to shift it, no big deal, forget to set work offsets= big deal

 

-"Universal" Tool Z Wear: - Tool wear Z value that always stays with the tool on the machine. Always comps by this value, set in machine control

 

-"Universal" Tool D Wear: - Tool wear D value that always stays with the tool on the machine.Always comps by this value, set in machine control

 

-"Specific" Tool Z Wear: - Tool wear Z Value that is specific only to this program. Always comps specific tool by this amount+"Universal" Tool Wear Z Value. Set in program header

 

-"Specific" Tool D Wear: - Tool wear D Value that is specific only to this program. Always comps specific tool by this amount+"Universal" Tool Wear D Value. Set in program header

 

-"Feature" Tool Z Wear: - Tool wear Z Value that is specific only to this feature. Always comps specific tool by this amount+"Specific"value+"Universal"Value. Set from cell controller through work offset setting interpreted as comp values.

 

-"Feature" Tool D Wear: - Tool wear D Value that is specific only to this feature. Always comps specific tool by this amount+"Specific"value+"Universal"Value. Set from cell controller through work offset setting interpreted as comp values.

 

"with all of these comps combined" it seems as if you could comp for almost anything and get parts in spec quickly and efficiently with a mix of tools at different wear levels.

 

All feature comps could tie into a key of what Work Offset Register(i.e. G54.1 P201 X Value) controls what feature.

 

Kinda long winded but this is the concept that we cam up with, opinions much appreciated!

 

[sarcasm on]

Wow you sat down and thought it all out and came up with a solution?

[sarcasm off]

 

Like anything figure out what is the problem. Detail the problem. Looks for ways to address the problem. Address the problem. Problem is solved.

 

Amazing how many places I go into and those steps are missing.

 

Good work thanks for taking the time to share that. :unworthy:

[DUM1]

WE PUSH OUR PROGRAMS FROM THE ROBOT CONTROLLER , THE WORK OFFSETS ARE PUSHED W/ THE PART PROGRAMS , IE.

G90G10L2G54 X.01889 Y9.51 Z5.03347(=BO DG SIDE)

G90G10L2G55 X-5.03818 Y9.51 Z.02433 (=B90DG SIDE)

G90G10L2G56 X5.02929 Y9.51 Z-.0215 (=B270DG SIDE PARTS) OR L20 FOR EXTENDED WORKOFFSETS

[Sticky]

My system is based on 1d10t compensation. Here is what I do.

 

-All fixtures and parts (even one offs) go onto the pallet or tombstone with us knowing their location within .010" or less

-ALL programs have the work offsets in the header with G10 to write them to the register. This is apart of the post. This way anytime the program is called it overwrites anything previously in the register with its own values.

-For any parts or fixtures that need greater accuracy then what is provided with the locating on the pallet or tombstone then the first part of the program is the probe coming in and writing over top of the program values with current data.

-For tools that are shared and may have had H or D values modified by another program we have those tools called at the beginning of the program to take test cuts, and then use the probe to comp them out. We do try to avoid this though because it is a cycle time eater, much easier to just buy more tools and leave them mounted in the matrix, but when you are out of space in the matrix or if you can't justify the cost this works.

-For some of the modular tombstones that we have where multiple different fixtures can be loaded we actually have a header program tied to the pallet , where the probe comes in and identifies which fixtures are mounted, and then calls the appropriate program.

 

The basic premise of this system is that all data is stored in the program, anything remaining in the registers is not considered valuable. All pallets have a program attached to them, some are dedicated, others are universal and identify what is on the pallet.

 

I am doing this on a 27 pallet FMS, I've had it for over 3 years, with 3 different programmers, 7 different operators, and no crashes

[Zoffen]

hey all thanks for all the input. Always nice to see how other people are doing it and not reinventing the wheel.

 

Looks like i'm headed down the right track! We'll see how far i get before speeding off of it!

[dforsythe]

Maybe your problem is much more complex than i think it is.  we use a very simple formula.  D wear can change from feature to feature due to tool pressure so we adjust it locally as well as the Z for blends.

 

G10 for work offset  ( get us close )

probe to set work offset

 

then all D and H numbers are the variable of the tool in the spindle ( makes it easy to edit tool numbers and you never have to edit the D or H, just the T) for all special tools

 

all D and H wear adjustments are done local in the program per operation or per tool.

 

 

 

M1
(****G10 INFORMATION START****)
G90
M98 P9002
G10 L2 P1 X0. Y-4.0325 Z8.6413 A-90.
G65 P9018 A54. B90. C55.
(****G10 INFORMATION END****)
M1
M31
N7 G40 G17 G94 G0 G90 G80 G20
G91 G28 Z0 M5
T07 M6 (.750 ROUGHER)
(ROUGH_PART)
G90 G10 L11 P#3026 R0. adjust D

G90 G10 L13 P#3026 R0. adjust H
M11
S9167 M3
G0 G90 G54
M11
A0.0
M10
X1.375 Y.1875
T11
G43 H#3026 Z3. M8 **************HEIGHT OFFSET CALL USING VAR
Z2.005
G1 G41 X1.425 D#3026  CUTTER COMP CALL USING VAR

[betts]

OK Maybe I am not getting it, but it seems to me that the solution is fix the problem. We have four machines tied to a 63 pallet system and we don't comp anything. We use a G10 line for offsets when needed, but the end goal is that they are all the exact same. All four machines have the exact same library and all parts can run on any machine with a couple exceptions due to one of the machines being a little older.

 

I guess if we were running one-offs maybe I would work on a comp system, but we haven't needed to do it. We do have dedicated fixtures and pallets which have all been verified so maybe that is the difference. We will manage the new cell system differently that is being installed in January because it will be a different statement of work, so maybe I will be back here putting together a comp system.

 

If you have time please post a follow up on how things are going after some time passes.