Multi axis Rotary

[Müřlıń®]

Hey guys....having some issues with ops going dirty.

 

When I go to regen, I get a message that the check and drive surfaces are the same....But they aren't.

 

When this happens, clicking on the geometry in NCI will sometimes just bring up the paras page.

 

Other times the popup will come up but you cannot deselect either the drive or the check surfaces.

 

Sometimes another popup will say there are check surfaces and not give you the opportunity to show them....other times the other popup will be where you can use the show button and say there are surfaces but when you press show nothing highlights. This is both on drive and check surface popups. but access the paramates pages and both drive and check surfaces will show a different number than the popup did.  and when you press the white arow to reselect the popup will come up showing a number of selected surfaces and still not let you deselect them.

 

While the op is dirty or not,  you can go review your drive and check selections and verify your selection....but when you regen the dirty op, you get the message that they are the same.

 

When this happens you can sometimes restart mastercam and all the ops that were dirty will be just fine...but try to change any setting and regen...."check and drive surf are the same"

 

What is going on?

 

Verify looks just fine....but I do not want to assume the op is ok while it really isn't.

 

I thought I had it figured out as a bug in selecting check surfaces....since Mastercam will not save your last solid selection you can accidentally choose the whole solid instead of just faces if you get too clicky.  If you do this you cannot deselect the check surface selection with the red arrow.

 

So I make a brand new op making sure every step I do is correct and don't have to change anything.

 

Anyone else having weird things happen with this tool path or suggestions to what I might be doing wrong?

[?Mark]

Was that op copied and edited or is is a brand new toolpath?

I get similar problems when I copy/edit multiaxis toolpaths. It seems that there is some residual info/settings sticking from the original toolpaths...

[Müřlıń®]

Was that op copied and edited or is is a brand new toolpath?

I get similar problems when I copy/edit multiaxis toolpaths. It seems that there is some residual info/settings sticking from the original toolpaths...

Yes!

 

It is copied and edited...just learning this tool path so when I got it right I just copied it and changed the plane and re selected the boundary.

[Guest]

Yes!

 

It is copied and edited...

 

:hand slap:  Don't do that!  

[Müřlıń®]

:hand slap:  Don't do that!  

Well how the heck am I spose to know that.....

 

If you cannot do that the ability to copy multiaxis ops should not be avaliable.

 

I watched allot of YouTube multiaxis videos(made by CNC reps) and CNC themselves say how great it is to be able to copy ops...

[?Mark]

 ROFLMAO!

Funny!

 

Copy/edit works well if only adjusting parameters. It gets messy when re-picking geometry.

[?Mark]

Everything on youtube looks great

[MadPickinSkills]

Everything on youtube looks great

hahaha

[Müřlıń®]

This is a buggy little function BTW....cant copy or edit AT ALL....I turned on the filter and all hell broke loose....

 

I had been using reference points...my Z was set to 4.25.

 

After turning the filter on and regen, my reference points changed....Y was now @-4.25 and Z 0. Verify was now showing the tool holder gouging all over.

 

Now comes the really weird part....a solid I had made that had all the history removed, on the last used level, moved exactly 4.25 in the X axis....

 

Not that is some bad JUJU when a crashed tool path will move geometry...I changed the ref points back and regen...op went clean but verify still gouged like the tool was still tying to end up @ Y-4.25....

 

SERIOUSLY?

 

Of course making a whole new op with all the correct settings THE FIRST TIME fixed it....but that's not the point....I didn't notice what my WCS was set at....it shouldn't have mattered but I have a feeling that has bearing....

[Müřlıń®]

 ROFLMAO!

Funny!

 

Copy/edit works well if only adjusting parameters. It gets messy when re-picking geometry.

see that's why I thought it would be ok....all I did was copy and change stock to leave....shortcut for roughing....

 

And everything was great until I turned on the filter...

[?Mark]

It is/could be a minefield, just like you found out. I do the same thing though. Copy/paste/edit parameters (for an extra rough path). At the first sign of trouble I nuke it and start from scratch. A lot of hours saved that way.

[gcode]

^{Here's a trick that's worked for me a couple of times}

^{make a junk op with very basic geometry}

^{drag that geometry into the copied op (right click, drag, replace)}

^{That will nuke the old geometry lurking in the basement}

^{Now select the real geometry and move on}

[Müřlıń®]

^{Here's a trick that's worked for me a couple of times}

^{make a junk op with very basic geometry}

^{drag that geometry into the copied op (right click, drag, replace)}

^{That will nuke the old geometry lurking in the basement}

^{Now select the real geometry and move on}

wow neat trick....thanks man...

 

I like the little tool path...its a down and dirty simple tool that does the job...making a new one is not a big deal...just when you have a bunch of them and they go dirty, its had to remember which solid face you used to make the op since it wont show you when it gets bugged...going to have to use colors and edit that in comments...

[Aaron Eberhard]

Hmm.. I copy/paste toolpaths all the time.. This sounds like it would be a good thing to send into QC, Müřlıń®.

[Müřlıń®]

Hmm.. I copy/paste toolpaths all the time.. This sounds like it would be a good thing to send into QC, Müřlıń®.

This is indigenous to Multi Axis Rotary.....I copy/paste all the time too never had a problem until I started using this tool path....there have been many people experiencing this bug so it is not me or something I am doing wrong and I am sure your QC department is fully aware of it already...no offense or disrespect intended.

 

I already know the answer.....this issue has been fixed in X9....

[Aaron Eberhard]

This is indigenous to Multi Axis Rotary.....I copy/paste all the time too never had a problem until I started using this tool path....there have been many people experiencing this bug so it is not me or something I am doing wrong and I am sure your QC department is fully aware of it already...no offense or disrespect intended.

 

I already know the answer.....this issue has been fixed in X9....

Perhaps they are aware of it, but it hasn't come across my desk yet either as customer requests logged or by the water cooler, so I'm not aware of them.  I'm taking a look into it now, of course, but it's always easier if I already have a file that has reproduceable steps instead of trying to blaze my own path

 

If it's been fixed in X9, well then, problem solved    I don't recall any stories being worked on relating to rotary surface selection issues with copy/paste, though....

[Aaron Eberhard]

As a followup, I can't reproduce any issues with it?  What am I doing wrong?

 

I created two rotary 4 axis ops (#1 & #2), that have both drive surfaces and check surfaces selected.  I copied those toolpaths to the group below (Copied Ops), and then tried to edit/reselect/show/remove the drive and check surfaces from the copied ops, and I haven't had any problems:

 

What am I missing?

Rotary 4x copy paste.zip

[Müřlıń®]

Perhaps they are aware of it, but it hasn't come across my desk yet either as customer requests logged or by the water cooler, so I'm not aware of them.  I'm taking a look into it now, of course, but it's always easier if I already have a file that has reproduceable steps instead of trying to blaze my own path

 

If it's been fixed in X9, well then, problem solved    I don't recall any stories being worked on relating to rotary surface selection issues with copy/paste, though....

That is just too weird that no customers have said anything.

 

This file has already been sent to QC for a bug I found with stock model where the tool crashes through the part using multiple planes.

 

The problem might not even be with copy/paste....I don't know....it might be with re-selecting paras/geometry on a copied op.  I really don't have a clue.

[Müřlıń®]

As a followup, I can't reproduce any issues with it?  What am I doing wrong?

 

I created two rotary 4 axis ops (#1 & #2), that have both drive surfaces and check surfaces selected.  I copied those toolpaths to the group below (Copied Ops), and then tried to edit/reselect/show/remove the drive and check surfaces from the copied ops, and I haven't had any problems:

Rotary 4x copy paste.jpg

 

What am I missing?

ok let me crash it for you....I might have to modify the geometry a tad...

[?Mark]

It also affects tools. I had a toolpath (pictures I sent you today) already done. I edited the length of the lollipop shoulder so it could gei deeper into the part, but after regenerating the toolpath didn't change at all. After creating a new tool with exactly the same parameters, selecting it and regenerating the toolpath it finally "kicked" in and changed my toolpath as expected.

[Aaron Eberhard]

ok let me crash it for you....I might have to modify the geometry a tad...

 

Cool, I appreciate it   I can't get it fixed if I don't know about it.

 

 

 

Mark @ PPG

- I'll take a look at it and make sure it's in front of the right audience.

 

Just a general note, I might have noticed this issue a bit earlier if it had been on our forum.

 

Cheers,

Aaron

[Müřlıń®]

Cool, I appreciate it   I can't get it fixed if I don't know about it.

 

 

 

- I'll take a look at it and make sure it's in front of the right audience.

 

Just a general note, I might have noticed this issue a bit earlier if it had been on our forum.

 

Cheers,

Aaron

I got kicked off your forum

 

not paying union dues....

 

 

Hey I cannot crash your file no matter what I do so I am going to dig up one of the backup saves on the troublesome file I have and modify it so I wont be sharing sensitive information....

 

might take me a little while I have to run a few errands...

 

Thank you for your help I will get back to you on this.

[Müřlıń®]

ok Aaron I forgot I had 50 saves so I could go back and look what was going on.

 

As far as the mysterious solid getting moved...that did not have anything to do with the tool path.

 

It got moved when I deleted some machine groups and moved the tool path groups around.  So entirely different issue.

 

And as far as the the inverted axis on reference points, I am not sure how that happened.       in the file I am sending you I looked at the last rotary paths in the file and Y is already set to -4.25 Z is 0.  it was suppose to be Z 4.25 Y 0.

 

When you create a new Multi axis rotary you can see the reference points are set correctly Y=0  Z=4.25.  So something had to change those reference points.

 

But the verify would not show a crash.  So I did not know they were already set to the wrong setting because when I created the new tool path everything looked good...I verified every setting.

 

However, turning on filter caused the verify to show the crash now and that is when I assumed they changed....but they already were.

 

But then when I try to set them back they won't work....

 

 

 

Ok I retraced my steps and found the bugged area and it recreates exactly as I have described.

 

I am sending you a file.   observe reference points when you try to create a new rotary path.

 

Run verify on the last 4 rotary ops.  use the stock_6 for the stock in verify.  Toolpath = good.

 

Edit the reference points in the last 4 ops back to y=0 z=4.25.  verify the last 4 ops again......now if you keep changing them I think they will eventually stick.

 

Then when they do and the verify looks good....toggle the filter on and re crunch...when I did it it pretty much wasted the ops...I had to make 4 new ones.....verify always shows crash....

 

I will be sending you the file shortly.

 

 

 

notice 

[Müřlıń®]

sorry dad came by and wanted to use lathe.... had to run him down shop for a few.

 

Sending now...

 

 

EDIT...why I wanted to get this nailed down is that I am pretty sure that would have been a major crash....because verify showed good....

[Aaron Eberhard]

Hey Murlin, I've been taking a look at this for you, thanks for the file!  I'll reply to your email privately, but I wanted to put this up here for anyone else who experiences this as well.  For anyone playing along at home: Murlin did a great job of diagnosing an issue where his Reference Points seemed to be inverting when creating a new toolpath.

 

 

I think what's catching you in this case is that Rotary 4Ax is TPlane aware, and it will rotate things like Reference Points to maintain the same position in a new plane.  This toolpath was created before Mastercam had WCSes, so it used TPlane as its' method of calculating what you meant by an XYZ position.  In the file you sent me, it opens in TOP/TOP/TOP:

 

Now your toolpaths are set to TPlane 270 (which is the top rotated 270* about the X).   The reference points in the toolpath #52 are:

 

Now, if I create a new Rotary toolpath, I get these reference points:

What!?  
 

Okay, let's make the point on your file using TOP/270/270:

 

Now, let's change to TOP/TOP/TOP and analyze that same point:

 

Ah ha!  

So that's the reason for the inversion when you create a new Toolpath.  When you create it new, it's using the TOP/TOP/TOP WCS & Planes instead of TOP/270/270 like the other toolpaths. 

 

I couldn't get any issues to occur when copy/pasting the last few toolpaths, so I'd appreciate some steps to reproduce that issue.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Edit:  Oh, and that looks like a fun part to make