Running multiple parts in a horizontal

[ujmujm]

We have a part running in a horizontal machine that we are barely showing a profit on, I looked at the program there really wasn’t any room for improvement, however I did notice they were only running three parts at a time which didn’t seem right to me, I would of loaded all four sides of the tombstone, I use to work with an engineer that would enter some numbers in a excel spread sheet that would spit out the optimal number of parts to run, my question is how many parts is to many, I was told that at a certain point it becomes counterproductive, is there a formula to follow? Would it improve the profitability of this part to run 12 parts at a time instead of 3, any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[Guest]

No one can give you any idea with looking at the part at a  minimum.

Each part can be a job unto itself

Yes, you can have tool many parts....no, there is no formula

I tend to look at changeover.....will there be another tombstone running or will the machine be waiting?

Runtime...will it stop during manned hours or sit overnight?

Could I gain more by having a shorter cycle but getting 2 runs instead of one if I let it run unmanned

Tool life....will my tools last an entire run? Doesn't matter how efficient you think you are if the machine sits because of broken tooling..Do I need to introduce probing? Tool life?

 

There are many other things to consider, not just how many parts

Edited June 5, 2017 by Guest

[jlw™]

Call him and get the spreadsheet, I'd like a copy too.

[crazy^millman]

Unproductive why? The tools are not changing as much and you are making 12 parts every time there is a complete cycle which always helps profits. The more a machine can run unattended the more money can be made. This is the basic concept of any machine. People who want to get their overtime and don't want the machine running more so they are needed more will want a process that requires more hands on labor. Your machine should be running 24/7 with 16 of that without any labor involved you have hit the correct place you need to be for being productive and making a profit in today's manufacturing. That machine should be able to run 100% all the time on the rapids and all things done to maximize efficiency should be considered. 

I would like to see this spread sheet also I was just talking to a PHD last night about this and he asked me about feeding parameters into a program and getting what we do all figured out and done. I said there is not a program I am aware of that can be given a model and out comes perfect code, setup sheets and process to manufacture the parts. He seemed puzzled it does not exist. I asked him is there any program that can come up with music or a piece of art on it's own? Not copy one, but create one of these things on it's own? He said of course not. Same with machining yes there are some knowns, but sometimes just the creativity of the human mind if much better and more adapt to just find a better way.

Point is find a better way. Don't think the word of someone is correct, prove it; show it and know it is. Then if you find the correct answer then stop back up and see if you can do better than that. Push, try and see what you can do to make it even better if you have the time. That is the key when you need to move on you move, but if your job is to reduce every second out of a job then I will reduce every second out of a job. If I only need to get it running that is one thing, but if I am making 5,000,000 of something a year I am looking at every .01 second through the prospective of 5,000,000 parts not through the prospective of 5 parts per year. 

[ujmujm]

The part is a 4” x 5” aluminum drive housing and we do a large volume of these parts, OP1 runs for 36 minutes and OP2 runs for 20 minutes, the operator runs another machine while this one is running, I agree with what you are saying my only thought is the expense for 6 more fixtures, time to modify the program, I will have 12 parts in inspection instead of 3 all of this you have to attach a dollar value to it, just to improve the margin only slightly, seems like it would take years to see any kind of return.

[crazy^millman]

2 hours ago, ujmujm said:

The part is a 4” x 5” aluminum drive housing and we do a large volume of these parts, OP1 runs for 36 minutes and OP2 runs for 20 minutes, the operator runs another machine while this one is running, I agree with what you are saying my only thought is the expense for 6 more fixtures, time to modify the program, I will have 12 parts in inspection instead of 3 all of this you have to attach a dollar value to it, just to improve the margin only slightly, seems like it would take years to see any kind of return.

That is the balance of manufacturing as all if this should have been accounted for and sorted out well before now. Inspection is out of the equation 3 parts or 12 parts is a non factor to cost here if anything having 12 parts at a time verses 3 at a time is better for them because they can breeze through 12 much faster than 3. They tell you otherwise start looking for people who want to improve things.

You answered my question and I will give this thought on 12 at a time is much better and will see a much quicker ROI than you are thinking. 36 minutes is your current 1st operation run time. The machine is running for 108 minutes unattended. If you went to 12 parts you would have 432 minutes of unattended run time. If you planned it correctly and got 7 hours at night in addition to your current capabilities assuming you are not running 3 shifts, but only running 2 or 1 shift and have machines sitting not running for 1 or 2 shifts then you have gains 7 hours of non employee paid running. If done correctly on a 2 pallet machine then you you even get 14 hours of time. If your company only runs 40 hours a week and you went to 12 parts you could have 74 hours a week in unattended time. If your shop rate is $100/hr then in one week you have seen a $14,800 ROI on running 12 parts at a time verse only running 3 at a time on the 1st operation.

What am I saying I must not know how to do math. We all know that $100 x 74 is $7400. Problem is most people don't think about the 74 hours you now have to put toward other work the 74 you just gained gave you. You now have the 2 for one return because that is now time you can put on other work you couldn't because you were only running 3 at a time. Sorry, but if your shop runs these part for 20 or 30 weeks a year with your current process yes some people will be upset because it will now be down to 5 to 7 weeks. They may have just lost their overtime and you have just made the company more profitable, but the people on the floor will be out for blood. That is the problem when the people on the floor are running things and the people running the company don't know what it takes to run the company. Looking at all of these parts of the manufacturing process is the complete and correct approach. There needs to be a good balance of moving forward and accepting things as they are. Sorry, but when you threaten anyone's gravy train of overtime expect push back. I don't know your shop and all your people and they all may be 40 hour a week people and never get overtime, but experience tells me otherwise.

[mkd]

39 minutes ago, ujmujm said:

The part is a 4” x 5” aluminum drive housing and we do a large volume of these parts, OP1 runs for 36 minutes and OP2 runs for 20 minutes, the operator runs another machine while this one is running, I agree with what you are saying my only thought is the expense for 6 more fixtures, time to modify the program, I will have 12 parts in inspection instead of 3 all of this you have to attach a dollar value to it, just to improve the margin only slightly, seems like it would take years to see any kind of return.

what is the cost of NOT going to 12 fixtures?

answer that and you've solved the issue.

 

I worked at a place making complex valve bodies from castings and whatnot. I move the company from doing multiple setups on many vertical 3ax machines to maximizing completion on  4 axis methods. Owner actually complained that i was overwhelming inspection with too many features to be inspected. Owner is still prospering and growing without me, due to hiring a good shop Manager.