Considering NCSimul, would like input

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Maybe Blizzard should write verification software.

[Mick]

I'll throw my hat in the ring, but the disclaimer is, I am a Vericut reseller.

I totally agree with those opinions of Jon Prun. Jon is one of the most honest, unassuming owners I have ever met in the CAE world. I've met a few (some well known ones), and Jon really stands out.

As for the product, Vericut didn't get where it is today by not being good. All software has its pro's and cons. Just look at CAM software. Service and support go a long way, and stand out way longer after the taste of a good price has gone. All those things have to be considered.

I'd check out all the products, and use your local  support. It is all good to have it demoed to you by a principal miles away, but it is when push comes to shove and you need someone to help quickly, that the support shows through. That often comes up in conversation from my customers (in all CAD/CAM/CAE products)

*Edit* Sorry, I mis-read the topic. I thought you were considering NC simulation in general. I'll be quiet LOL

[Watcher]

5 hours ago, jlw™ said:

There's no doubt in my mind they can, they currently do not have it in their repertoire yet.  

J,

In your shoes I´d break this problem into smaller pieces and try to answer them:

• Do they support head head machines?
• Do they support collinear axis in case a RAM is present?
• Do they support attachments in case I ordered the machine with special heads?
• Do they support Mazatrol control already? Remember Mazak is very consistent about their EIA code across multiple machine models.
• Do they have support for CAD models from a known format, like STEP?

If you answer to these questions is yes, it´s very likely that they can build your machine safely. Of course it will take a little longer and you will have to validate a lot in some areas. All in all it is a straightforward gantry mill with a head-head kinematics. I´m sure they´ve done a bunch of similar machines.

Nobody starts from the scratch... Nearly everything in CAx is a bunch of small problems solved separately and merged into a final solution.

But for 1/6 of the cost and the chance to introduce CAV in your shop... I´d not hold my breath... It´s well worth the effort...

Remember: A lot of what happens during the development of posts and machine simulation depends on how much engagement the customer puts on the effort. Every off-the-shelf machine or post-processor (If such thing exists) started with someone... Not funny to be the Guinea-Pig but this is likely a safe bet.. If and only if their support is as good as their competitor´s, which from experience I can recommend.

I personally love to do things that were never done before. It makes me feel I somehow contribute to the development of my beloved trade. 

 

[crazy^millman]

9 minutes ago, Watcher said:

J,

In your shoes I´d break this problem into smaller pieces and try to answer them:

• Do they support head head machines?
• Do they support collinear axis in case a RAM is present?
• Do they support attachments in case I ordered the machine with special heads?
• Do they support Mazatrol control already? Remember Mazak is very consistent about their EIA code across multiple machine models.
• Do they have support for CAD models from a known format, like STEP?

If you answer to these questions is yes, it´s very likely that they can build your machine safely. Of course it will take a little longer and you will have to validate a lot in some areas. All in all is a straightforward gantry mill with a head-head kinematics. I´m sure they´ve done a bunch of similar machines.

Nobody starts from the scratch... Nearly everything in CAx is a bunch of small problems solved separately and merged into a final solution.

But for 1/6 of the cost and the chance to introduce CAV in your shop... I´d not hold my breath... It´s well worth the effort...

Remember: A lot of what happens during the development of posts and machine simulation depends on how much engagement the customer puts on the effort. Every off-the-shelf machine or post-processor (If such thing exists) started with someone... Not funny to be the Guinea-Pig but this is likely a safe bet.. If and only if their support is as good as their competitor´s, which from experience I can recommend.

I personally love to do things that were never done before. It makes me feel I somehow contribute to the development of my beloved trade. 

 

Daniel, I can answer all of them with a YES they do. I have built a couple machines and once I wrapped my head around the process it is no different than building them for just about any CAV I have looked at. The developed the parameters from the machines to build the control process now being used by many others. They have built some really involved machines. As a joke they even simulated the programmable coolant nozzle on the HAAS UMC-750.

[Watcher]

11 hours ago, jlw™ said:

There's no doubt in my mind they can, they currently do not have it in their repertoire yet.  

J,

Another thing that just crossed my mind was that even if they had done this exact model before, odds are high they could not re-use it for your project. The reason is NDAs.

Most customers and machine builders demand NDAs to share information. If Spring is running their business ethically, and I believe they are, they could not sell an existing machine to you or even use it as the basis of yours. Only if they build it to stock.

CGTech for example make stock machines as a starting point, on their own initiative. Usually off-the-shelf machines like Haas, certain Mazak models, etc. Machines that people order all the time or have high demand in the market. We bought years ago an Integrex e-1060V from them (Before it went into the demo library ) and a Mori NT-5400 not so long ago. They were readily available because they were common machines. I doubt a Versatech is considered an off-the-shelf machine by Spring.

Also, these CAV suppliers have their partnership agreements with machine builders, and they trace strategies to develop their own turn-key packages for certain machine brands & models. See CAMPlete coverage for Matsuuras. They probably adjust models and machine unique measurements or options and ship a turn-key solution to the customers.

What can be a strategy from CGTech to have Versatech machine on stock because of their marketing strategy with Mazak, may not be equal on Spring´s side.

I´ve built myself dozens of machines in Vericut in the past 15 years. 6 of them were WFLs - From the 6, 4 I built together with CGTech and two on my own. CGTech never ever re-used stuff from other customers and AFAIK respected all NDAs they signed with us and WFL. I remember going through hard times trying to figure things out with CGTech support, things I knew they went through with other WFL customers. They never took the shortest path with us and today I can see how important that was. Same way, we developed unique things with them for WFL simulation that I´m confident no other company in the world has seen yet. Things that are not even in the help documentation so far.

The ethical aspect of how a company conducts its business speaks volumes to me and my employer.