contour milling on a live tool lathe

[cherokeechief79]

im doing some y axis contouring on a nokamura tome 9 axis lathe.the mach is brand new and we only bought the best tooling.shrink fit in alberti heads.the tooling overhang is minimum but i cant seem to get a great finish.ive never contour milled (or milled for that matter)on a lathe and was curious as to if this was just inhearant to tang drive tooling or if im doing something wrong.there always seems to be slop in the engagement.

thanks

mark

[crazy^millman]

Ok I guess I would have to ask 2 questions here.

 

1) Would you have a sample file you could put up on the FTP.

 

2) What toolpaths are you using to do this operation. If you are usign a toolpath that is a surface toolpath are you using the filter. Does the machine need certain things to figure out tanganceys for the tooling or does the Cam program need to do this for you.

[Jack Mitchell]

Mark,

 

Regarding the slop in the engagement.

There has to be a certain amount of free play with the live tooling otherwise the bearings would wear very quickly, If using the live tooling for 10 minutes for drilling, tapping, profiling, etc! a fair bit of friction would occur within these small units and they would not last very well.

 

I would also tend to do layered cuts with a quicker feed to minimize these operations, often these units use those little stainless rubber collets - there is a definate learning curve to mastering the use of this type of equipment.

 

Take care to check your tool hangout with all the guarding and tailstock, it's so easy to overlook when you start getting into it.

 

 

Regards, Jack

[cherokeechief79]

thanks guys.this is actually the 1st job run in this machine.it has a rotating upper turret(91 deg in either direction)mc cannot control this rotating B axis .and im forced to look at some other cam systems (just for this one machine)if i want to program it off of the machine control.

3 guys came down to train me on it.the 1st 2 were learning themselves as we attemted the 1st jobs and we could not accept this as the training that was promised with the purchase.the 3rd was a japnese fellow who was actually a very nice guy and knew the machine well but did all of the programming by hand at the control with a calculator.none of the 3 were familiar with cam systems at all.if we are gonna get much production out of this machine ive got to be able to program it on a pc.

the contouring i am doing on it is just very straightforward lines and arcs.no surfacing.

i was just wondering why i cant get that smooth as glass finish im used to on a mill.

[cherokeechief79]

quote:

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Regarding the slop in the engagement.

There has to be a certain amount of free play with the live tooling otherwise the bearings would wear very quickly, If using the live tooling for 10 minutes for drilling, tapping, profiling, etc! a fair bit of friction would occur within these small units and they would not last very well.

---

the heads are very tight and ive got speeders too.what seems to be sloppy is the engagement of the tang and the driver in the turret.

[crazy^millman]

So your dealer told you it could not control that Axis seems Strange since alot of guys do that if I am not mistaken. I could be wrong but I do full 5 axis Machining with Mastercam and I have seen plenty of Demo where people are machining on a lathe with live tooling. If I am wrrong I aplogize but I just trying to figure this out as you are is all.

[Mackius]

quote:

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3 guys came down to train me on it.the 1st 2 were learning themselves as we attemted

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Did you pay for the training, if yes, why are these 2 guys learning for free ( i assume they are not your employees)?? you should have kicked them out, since you paid for the training, and tell them to use their own time for training not at your expense.

 

[Harryman]

Good day Mark.

 

One thought that occurs to me is the C axis itself. Do you have it clamped during your Y axis cuts? As opposed to relying on the C axis drive to maintain position. The C axis can be torqued around slightly by milling forces if not clamped.

 

quote:

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rotating upper turret(91 deg in either direction)mc cannot control this rotating B axis

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MC does good on our Integrex with B axis. Why can it not work for yours?

[crazy^millman]

Was thinking of you Harry when this came up. Also congrats on the Senior memeber Status didnt see that till now. I am also enjoying my 5 days off I will go back Thursday. I of course have got some calls but oh well that is part of being in charge.

[Harryman]

quote:

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5 days off

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Good, that'll give your butthead bosses a chance to appreciate you.

[Keith Graydon]

Hi Mark,

 

quote:

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Do you have it clamped during your Y axis cuts?

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IT being the "C" axis.

 

This was my first thought

my second concerns the tang drive. Is the tang and slot tapered to reduce clearence to nill on engagement? or does the tang slop around in the slot? that could be a bad thing.

 

All: Here is a link to the machine that Mark is wrestling with. Its pretty cool. remember it is a 9axis machine.

 

and this is a diagram...

[crazy^millman]

Well it looks like fun to be honest. That is the type machine I would consdier a dream to run. Give me that and a real full 5 Axis articallting Head machime with soem a$$ and I think I would be in hog heaven.

 

It has 9 axis moving but I only see X,Y,Z,C,B which is 5 axis with the capablaility of 9 axis of movement but only have 4 axis of simultaneous movement which by no means I am down playing just I would think Mastercam may require some tweaking to do what you want but more than capable of creating toolpaths but then the trick would be dialing in a post to run the machine correctly. I would be looking at some kicka$$ verification software to proof out my NC code. I would also think you would not be setting a machien up liek this to be doing one off parts so then you get the time needed to twaek and improve as you go along unlike here where we get the 3 weeks jobs my owerns still promise in 3-5 days with a month load already in the que.

[cherokeechief79]

thanks guys.that picture is the beast im workin with.the tang drive is sloppy and actually sounds like the bearings are shot as it runs.(but they are not and brand new).

the upper rotating turret can lock down on any angle so i dont need lots of angled holders(rotating)one spotdrill can spot all of the holes at any angle.i can also rotate the coordinate system at any angle to machine any angle as a flat.it can do 4 axis siultanious on each spindle at the same time.its a beautiful machine but i just wish i could get a better finish milling with the side of an endmill.

our mastercam reseller told us that this machine is out of the question for mc.i know it can handle a lot of it but the rotating b axis is the tough one.i really dont have the time or patience to learn another new software(remember i was all smartcam up till last year)im pretty good with mc now and would love to use it on this machine but i dont want to do it all as cut and paste to get a program together.

we did get rid of the 2 first people training us on the machine.thats why they sent the japanese guy.

[cherokeechief79]

quote:

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3 guys came down to train me on it.the 1st 2 were learning themselves as we attemted

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what i ment was that the 1st guy didnt know the machine enough to get the 1st job running properly so they sent a second who knew less of the machine than the 1st.after about a month of the machine still not making parts(we had to wait for some special parts too like an ejector for the subspindle) they sent the japnese guy from nokamura tome.its running now but i sure dont want to program it all at the control by hand the way this program is running.

 

harryman

i am clamping the c axis as i mill,

[Harryman]

Sorry for being no help Mark.

 

I can empathize though. We had the first Integrex 300Y in the US. Nasty learning curve for everyone.

 

Feel free to vent now and then. There are plenty of folks here that have heard the "don't you have that running yet?"

 

What kind of part quantities are you planning to run?

 

How do you delineate code that is supposed to run simultaneously on different axes?

 

Tell us as much as you want to. I'm sure others would like to know more about this machine too.

[crazy^millman]

Yes I echo that Harry would like to know all about the machine. The way the wait codes work if it uses them. I am still thinking you can use Mastercam but not having a particaliar part and the machien in front I guess just wishful thinking at this point. Best of luck with this and think you have got a very awsome experience in store that will test you both mentally and physically. Just remember if they can't do it don't let them quote it and don't let them put put pressure on you that will only stress you out more.

[Keith Graydon]

Mark,

Try one more thing (you prolly all ready have).

Change your cut direction climb/coventional>>>conventional/climb.

 

quote:

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our mastercam reseller

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Cimquest perhaps? MCam could prolly do a lot of the pieces of a program but it would be a cut and paste affair as you mentioned.

 

Onsite training.

 

I once had training for probe functions on a machine we have. A good company rep doing the trainig and some "tag-along" guy who seemed bright enough but i believe was a severe case of adult ADHD. The guy wouldnt SHUT UP I finally had enough and punched him ,ah er ah....nevermind Anyway. he didnt return for day #2.

[Rekd™]

Mark,

 

Just curious..

 

How's the transition from SC coming?

Are you getting used to MC?

How's the post looking?

Have you had time to tweek on it yet?

 

'Rekd

[cherokeechief79]

thanks guys

ill get it to work somehow

rekd.......things are working well with mc.the makino horizontal cell controller programs need to be posted a little differently than i had thought before it hit the shop floor.weve got it running and getting better at it everyday.

keith ......ill try conventional milling.and our rep is prism engineering.

i do use wait codes.

[Reece L Gibson]

The Hicell we have gives me great finishes.

I was really surprized.

I believe it does better than the Fadal we have.